New guy looking for advice...

petersen43

New member
Hi everyone,
I'm new to the forum, and this is my first post. Thanks for having me! I have always had an interest in Model A's but never had the nerve to go out and buy one, my oldest Ford to date was a '39 Ford coupe with a '49 flathead in it.

I've been in touch with a few sellers recently, and have looked at a couple of cars already. I'm specifically looking for a 2 door sedan. Being that Model A's are such a departure from what I'm used to looking at, I've come here for a little advice.

My wife and I answered an ad for one in New England this weekend which amounted to a hellish nearly 5 hour ride in holiday traffic. We met this older gentleman at his house, and followed him to the barn where he stores the car. At first glance, it looked like it was in fairly nice shape. It had a little bondo to fill small holes at the lower cowling, and some old fender cracks repaired in its day. the interior had been redone, and while it was sound, looked like the lining of a coffin. The top was old and there were bumps beneath it similar to when you might find rust blisters under a leaking vinyl top of a '60s or 70's era car.

The most startling part and the reason I'm writing this, was the fit of the hood....On the right side, the hood had a gap against the cowling 3/4" wide, while where it meets the grille shell, the hood overlapped. The left side was shifted to the rear. The firewall radiator rod anchors, had been ripped loose at some point. The car had obviously been hit.

The crossmember on the passenger side looked to have been shifted back which sheared the factory rivets holding it in and was poorly welded in one small spot to the frame roughly 3/4" back from where it was supposed to be, based on the now offset location of the rivet holes. The passenger fender brace was stamped steel while the left fender brace was cast. While I was looking at this car in dark barn with a flashlight, the frame looked perfect, with zero evidence of any tweaking. No stretched metal, nothing. It looked perfectly straight, even the fenders fit nicely, with matching fit on both sides.

Thinking it over, it seems the hood misalignment is entirely due to the crossmember misalignment, which in turn misaligned the grille shell. Bearing in mind it's an 82 year old car, I expect damage. I'm just wondering if you guys come across this kind of thing often, or if this is a big flag. Additionally, the drivetrain leaks like a sieve, the bumper chrome is peeling and the tires probably need to be replaced. Aside from the collision damage, it was exactly what I was looking for.

Now I'm not sure of the sellers angle, but given that it's in a rented wooden barn, he said he wasn't comfortable starting the car in the event it backfired and started a fire. And despite the fact he knew I was driving so far to see the car, he didn't make an effort to make the car more accessible. It was blocked in by other vehicles preventing me from getting it out this weekend even if I did want to buy it.

After getting a little annoyed at both the seller and the car, we left. I still want the car, but am wondering what might be a fair price for it. While the photos don't help to show the hood fit, they give an ok idea of condition. Any comments?
 

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Not trying to be critical, I've seen a LOT of A's, from what I see & what you describe, I see a large MONEY PIT! Think about this: What else is hidden, why was it parked? Might be a totally worn out old bucket. Don't get in a hurry, there's the right one out there somewhere with your name on it. By the way, WELCOME to The Fun FORDBARN! Bill W.
 
Regardless of what the old guy says, unless your buying it for a parts car you should hear it run. It sounds like he's trying to hide something by not making it more accessible. And not having it ready to start. Do a lot of investigation before buying. That way you'll have some idea of what's fair. I bought a car last year that was supposed to be restored. The lesson I've learned has been very expensive. I've learned a lot in the last year but it was a heart breaker not getting what I paid for. Later I purposely went out to buy a beater as a parts runner. It turned out to be better than the "restored" car I'd paid twice as much for. Beware, if it looks too good to be true, it probably is.
 
First, tell us where you live, so we can suggest a local club or club members to help you in your shopping to get a good car.

Second, regarding this one, from the photos I would say no more than $5K. And that might be high, depending on the real condition of the sheet metal. In your favor, it has rare eyebrow front fenders (at least on the pass. side—can't see the driver's side; make sure they match!); and it looks to have the right original stuff on it (carb, fan blade, horn, wiper motor), though nothing unusual.

Minuses are incorrect upholstery, incorrect headlights, and potentially a worn out engine, judging from its cosmetics (yeah, I know, that's a stretch). Hood misalignments are common, and many things can cause them. Only a careful examination of the frame will tell the story. New upholstery and a rebuilt engine are going to cost you about $4800; if you got the car for $5K and did only those two things, you'd be close to the cost of a complete nicer older restored Tudor without the headaches and delays.

Finally, Tudors are as common as dirt; there were more of those made than any other model, and they survived better than the nearest runner-up, the roadsters. Take your time; join a club; look at LOTS of cars, get advice from guys who know (take someone with you who knows what to look for); decide what your goal is (restoration project, show car, just buy and drive, or what); then make your best deal, jump in and have a great ride!

PS: A note of caution: Once you get started, you may discover that one Model A isn't enough. Discuss this with your spouse. ;)
 
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Hmmm... I can understand the lack of getting the car out based on the number of "just lookin' " types out there. Without hearing it run I would be wary. In fact, I would consider the engine dead if I don't hear otherwise. The interior, from a restorers point, is trash. For those that aren't concerned about authenticity it is okay. The crossmember can be fixed by grinding and fresh rivets but, what other damage might there be? Axle alignment, flywheel housing, etc.

Mine was purchased for $12,500 by the person I got it from. It has a proper interior with some minor leakage stains, most everything was fair to good, and it was running. It also had a 12v system except for the starter and it came with a spare generator.

P.S. Welcome to the group.
 
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forget that one, there are a lot of A's for sale, they are clean and straight, from what you have stated there is probably about 8 to 10 thousand dollars to be put in the car, walk away from this one, no RUN away as fast as you can
 
You are making your first mistake in thinking old cars are hard to find, and you need to grab the first one that comes along. Check out cars for sale on the MAFCA web site, and by all means find a club and join! Don't be afraid someone will jump your claim. Most of us old timers already have too many cars. Spend some time learning about the Model A, its strengths, its weaknesses, and what the going prices are. In my judgement, the car you pictured has not been restored. It's been painted and upholstered, wrong. Do not pay for a car that's supposed to run and be driveable without hearing it run and driving it. There's a reason, or maybe several reasons, why that car wasn't out where you could see and hear it run, and take it for a spin.
 
The way I see it is that you're looking at a parts car and unless he proves otherwise that's all it is. As far as restoring or rebuilding it remember that you are buying all those "parts" that need replacing and then you'll be buying them again to put the proper or restored parts back on the car. JMHO
 
I would agree with the other responses that you will have many other better choices in getting your first Model A. It took me almost two years to find the car that I wanted but I finally did, after looking at lots of junk along the way. Best advice is to join your local Model A club and seek advice from your fellow club members. I did this which vastly improved my knowledge about the Model A and gave me much more ability to focus on finding a decent car at a decent price. Good luck and happy car hunting!
 
Surely after driving 5 hours, upon leaving you would have asked the ole guy what he wanted?
 
I would say that car has a bent frame. Most do but that one sounds real bad. Sounds like it does not run or it runs very poor. Unless you get it real cheap I would pas on it. If you buy it I would not give him the money until he gets the car out, and you check the title.
 
Yeah, stay away from that one. There are a lot of tudors out there for a real good price. You need to hang with the Model A guys in a club. You will find that club members have a wealth of knowledge and can guide you to the right places. Unless
you are real talented with body work and Model A mechanics you will find it much
cheaper in the long run to buy one that is restored from a reputable person. There
are a lot of folks here on this forum that can guide you along the way and are eager
to do so. Welcome to the forum.

Jack
 
Thanks for all the advice so far! I did actually join the Model A Ford Club of America a few days ago, now just waiting for my package in the mail. The seller advertised it for nearly $7k in Hemmings. As we walked out he asked me what I thought, and I was honest. While I didn't want to make an offer until I made this post, I told him I didn't see the car selling for more than $5k and in as-is condition, I was realistically thinking more like $4k. I don't have the budget for a restored car, I want something like this to tool around town in, making repairs as I go.
 
Thanks for all the advice so far! I did actually join the Model A Ford Club of America a few days ago, now just waiting for my package in the mail. The seller advertised it for nearly $7k in Hemmings. As we walked out he asked me what I thought, and I was honest. While I didn't want to make an offer until I made this post, I told him I didn't see the car selling for more than $5k and in as-is condition, I was realistically thinking more like $4k. I don't have the budget for a restored car, I want something like this to tool around town in, making repairs as I go.

I don't know your finances but if you took your budget and went to the bank for the rest (I called my a garage addition, which it was and tax deductible to boot) for 3-4 years you would be much further ahead buying that car that was restored a couple of years ago.
 
Run,don't walk..................JMO
When looking for mine 2 yrs ago, I looked at 15-20 within about a 110 mile radius of the center of the state. Lots out there for sale (especially now), from fine point to nice drivers, to what you looked at, to worse.
Good Luck and welcome to the Barn.
Paul in CT
 
forget that one, there are a lot of A's for sale, they are clean and straight, from what you have stated there is probably about 8 to 10 thousand dollars to be put in the car, walk away from this one, no RUN away as fast as you can

Ditto
 
If you get it for 4k then I would consider it. In canada that's extremely cheap and would ****** it up without a doubt. If he wants higher amount then walk away! Tell him you will come back and you want to hear it running. If not low ball him another 1k.
 
I see most of the guys guessing are on the left coast.New England is a whole different game when it comes to old cars.What they would throw away,or use as parts cars we call good.We have to,everything here rusted away or got used up so badly there isn't much left.I had one about like that,it was solid,ran OK,had a Cartouche interior,the good fenders had been robbed and replaced with cobbed up ones.I got it after somebody backed out of a garage with it with the drivers door open.I got $8000.for that one,and it sold pretty fast.The A guys were offering $4-$5000 for it.A street rodder bought it.I also had a barn 29 coupe,solid,used engine in the middle of being installed when the owner gave up on it in 76.I had to cap a street rodders offer to save it,in the end I sold that for close to $8000.It went to a rodder,none of the A guys would go that much.For the most part we have A's because they are cheap to keep compared to other makes.And a lot of us are cheap.Most folks with A's are not the kind to get in financial pickles,so if things are slow we don't care.There will always be a few bargains,but for the most part people will just sit on them and wait.I've only sold a few A's,but if somebody is looking at one of mine and starts whining about the economy and telling me it isn't worth much right now I just tell them that I will wait another 10 or 15 years until things are better.I don't bother with lowballers.I always put in my ads lowbawlers don't bother,and when I talk to them on the phone I say right up front don't come over thinking you are going to lowball me.That way they won't waste their time and mine.I don't mind one bit if they look and say too much for me,that I can understand.I would want a whole lot more information about that car before I would guess at it.
 
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