New Engine starts then doesn't

Mike, I did post it on the HAMB banger thread. I have learned there are very knowledgeable folks in both locations, and appreciate the feedback from all.
 
If you've the set up that allows you to set your valve clearances, have the adjusters on the two cylinders with no compression come loose?
 
Mike, I had not thought about that, I need to lift the two valve covers on top of the head and check that before I go further. Thanks for the idea. Dave
 
Update to the troubleshooting of my Riley Two Port engine that started and now does not want to: tonite I removed the side cover on thr engine and had my son turn the engine over by hand. Sure enough the #1 and #4 exhaust valves were not moving. I sprayed some Marvel mystery oil on the two lifter and also on the botton of the valve stems. The #4 began to move up and down normally.:) #1 lifter moved up and down very smoothly but the exhaust valve remained up. :confused: The lifter moved up and down to meet it but it just stayed in the up position. This is not good. What might you all suggest.

1) pull the heavy Riley head again (did it once to replace the head gasket)
2) Spray something (maybe more Marvel Mystery oil) into the spark plug hole, soak for a day or so and hope for the best
or
3) ???
 
More things learned as I could not well enough alone tonite: I redid the compression checks and found the following:

1) 0#
2) 100#
3) 100#
4) 0#

The I took off each of the top Riley valave covers to see if all was ok on the intake valve side. I removed the front and all looked OK and as I tuned the engie over by habd everything went up and down.

I went to remove the rear Riley valve cover and as I took off the top nut and moved the cover I heard a springy sound. Took the cover off and alll looked good and moved OK, but the initial sound caused me to pause.

I redid the compression checks and found the following:

1) 0#
2) 100#
3) 100#
4) 90#:)

At least now I have three of the 4 cyclinders with compression. I am still puzzled on what to do before I conceed and lift the OHV head again to look at the #1 exhaust valve.

Any creative suggestions?
 
Dave

I too have an early original two port head and I noticed that the valve covers have marks in them like the rocker arms have rubbed the valve covers at certain points during it's life. Curious if perhaps the valve cover was misaligned slightley when tightened down and when one of the intakes opened, the rocker hung up slightly on the valve cover causing the intake valve not to close completely and when you loosened it the valve snapped closed (springy sound). Just a thought
 
Deuce I believe you are correct. I looked into the valve covers and discovered the marks you are describing and think this is what caused the rocker springs to be caught temporarily.
 
Good deal hopefully that was part of your problem. I think I might try to clearance mine slightly on the inside and be carefull when tightening down the wingnut. Good Luck Dave. Sounds like your getting a handle on it. Hopefully you don't have to pull the head again. Suckers are heavy aren't they.
 
I had trouble with a sticky exhaust valve on my '41 De Soto when I first got the car; valve would stick open, sometimes would snap closed after sitting overnight or a couple of days.

I didn't want to pull the head, so I opened the valve chamber and with the valve lifter on the low part of the cam, would work two big screw-drivers into the coils of the valve spring, and it would suddenly snap closed.
Flooded as much of the stem as I could with PB Blaster, turned the engine over, and repeated. Finally, with the engine idling, I would work a putty-knife or thin screwdriver between the tappet and the valve stem, forcing the valve to open a little further than it normally would, thus provoking it to stick. Then I would go back to the big screw-drivers in the spring coils...
After an evening of this, the valve loosened-up and hasn't given trouble since.

In my case, this was due to carbon / gum and lack of use... but might give you some ideas on how to deal with yours w/o popping the head ?

Good luck !
 
Frank,

Thanks for the ideas. If I can free the valve without pulling the head, and adding some Marvel oil to the new gas things should improve.

I think I will try some of the suggestiosn.

Last night I thought about placing a screw driver between the lifter and the bottom of the valve spring to see if I could push the valve up, while rotating the engine by hand to release whatever might be holding it up as well as squirting the valve guide and stem with some kroil.

It was kroil that release #4 valve last night. I don't know what in kroil but it sure seems to be able to loosen stuck things.

A moral of this story, I will never ever use old gas when starting a new engine. I will always drain it and make sure new gas is used when starting a new engine.
 
The Riley head will be coming off the weekend unless soemthing happens by morning. After pulling the exhaust manifold tonite and feel ing around under the valve, it seems like something is holding it up. I am soaking the vsalve stem and the seat overnight with kroil to see if I can loosen it up. If tomorrow night no movement is seem as the engine is rotated, I will pull the head and see what is going on. It is neat to feel the valves throught he exhaust ports doing there job as the engine is manual rotated. I am convince that after I am done there will not be a part of the engine I have not dealt with.

I appreciate all the advice from the board along the way.
 
Dave,

I see that you used WD40 or PB Blaster like product on the valve stems ... it would be a good idea to clean all the PB and WD40 out of valve guides with lacquer thinner or solvent before starting the engine.

I do not know if this is a problem with the older WD or PB (I have had this happen with both) but recently I have found that when you heat WD or PB it turns into a substance similar to super glue.

It will lockup throttle shafts on carbs (after you run them and get them hot) so tight that the steel bushings that were pressed in will turn in the bores!

I only recently found the carb problem and have not had time to figure out what solvent dissolves the "superglue" once it sets up. Please let me know what works for you!

I have also had problems with bronze bushings.

Like many people have said before ... WD or PB is NOT a lubricant!

Especially when heated!

Maybe Kroil does same thing ... I don't use it except for really difficult problems due to it being more expensive!
 
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Benson,

Thank for the feedback. I did not know this abou the WB and PB products. I used kroil only a bit, bt when the top end comes apart tonite I will make a point o clean the items with some lacquer thinner.

Dave
 
Took the afternoon off work and began to take the engine apart to see what was happening inside. After I taking intake, exhaustm carb water pump off I moved to the studs and nuts. With all of them removed the head would not lift.

I have a composite gasket made bu Olson Gaskets of Port Orchard, WA. Very good gasket, went on dry and sealed the first torqueing.

Rather than destroy the gasket to get the head off I remove the side cover to see what is happening. Well the #1 exhasut valve is still up off the lifter. So I take a large screw driver and rotate the engine by hand to push the valve up a bit. To my surprise as the vlave goes up, so does the head.

I step back and scratch my bald head to ponder this for a few minutes. So I rotate the engine again and as the valve is pushed up the head raises but the valave will not lower onto the lifter.

I then use my engine hoist (the Riley head is about 75 lbs and costs over $2500 so I do not want to drop it). As the head rises with the engine hoist, I hear a spring sound. I stop and look into the side cover area of the engine only to see the #1 exhaust valve has returned to the proper postion on top of the lifter. :)
 
After the Riley HEad was removed and set the bench I looked over the valve only to see a little bit of a chamfer on the very front passender side. The rest of the circumference did not have this chamfer. The area is only about 15 degree along the radius. The good thing is the vlave now moved up and down as it normally should. It seats well and rises smoothly to it risen postion and then returns down smoothly. Looks like the valve stem was not damaged byt being bound up by the combustion area of the OHV.
 
The Riley head was place on the bench for inspection. I saw some scrapping in the #1 combustion chamber that coincidentally corresponds with the minor wear of the #1 exhasut valve. In thinking back when the engine first started, it never did want to run smoothly. I guess the when the valve first came up as the engine was being started, it hung on the side wall of the OHV head.

It looks like I will be digging into my dremmel tool bag looking for a but to relieve some cast iron from the front of the #1 combustion chamber of the Riley Two Port OHV head.

My guess is that during casting of this head it must have shifter or something else went wrong. This is a standard size exhaust valve and I would have a ssumed enough relief area would have been machined to allow for the exhaust valve to reach it top.

Thanks for all the advice so far. It looks like once this is back running in the next week or so, I will have become very familar with the entire engine.
 
Dave, remember you originally had two valves sticking (#1 & #4), so there may be too little clearance for any of the four. You might want to use some modeling clay stuck into the chambers to give you a print of how all four valves clear and align. Anything less than 1/16" radial clearance is a potential problem with an exhaust valve because having one side shrouded (and no valve rotators) will cause uneven valve head heating and warp.

A dremel could take you forever and a day to do the job, and you really need to do all four. An air grinder or Dumore with 1/4 shank carbide burrs and stones is normally used. If you are not experienced at doing this, cut a sheetmetal guard with the outline shape of one chamber plus the needed clearance to clamp on and protect the head's gasket face from boo-boos. If you make the sheetmetal carefully, you can use it with layout dye and a scribe to mark all four before you start. Keep an eye on how the gasket will fit, too. You do not want any chamber overhang when finished.

If you are the handy mechanical type, you could take an old exhaust valve, notch the side and braze in a carbide or piece of tool steel to act as a fly cutter. Sharpen it to give you about 1/16 side clearance. The tool could be used in a mill, drill press, or even on the block itself if you grind a flat on the shaft for a pulley/drive/set-screw. If you use a block, place 1/2" spacers between the head and block to clear your cutter and provide a peek at what is going on. Make sure your cutter design doesn't mess your block exhaust valve seats. This isn't any new trick, I used to fly cut SBC pistons in place for valve clearance like this. (no spacers) I don't know if your Riley is original or Yapp, but the Yapp heads have enough meat to cut clearance for even bigger exhaust valves.
 
Mike thank you for the advice. This is a Yapp head. I have a die grinder, this now gives me an excuse to cut some new parts for it. I am going to take my time an look closely at all four combustion chambers because i don't want to make taking this head a hobby by it self. Dave
 
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