When the originals are gone they are gone. I still think there are more restoration/rebuild people than there are racers, not to discount there efforts. Most would be happy with just a replacement.
New block
- Thread starter Tod
- Start date
Henry Floored
Well-known member
Hey gang, General Motors built enough sbc's to encircle the Earth and yet there are quite a few aftermarket companies make blocks for one reason or another.
There are even more aftermarket companies that make various cylinder heads for the sbc's.
Now as we all know that is a huge market but we must also understand that the V8 Fords are also a good and healthy market.
When we think of something like this we must remember improving airflow is mostly involving the cylinder block on the Flathead Ford.
A cracked head on an sbc can be discarded and replaced with a better replacement.
With our little Ford V8's we must deal with those cracks or be forced to discard the majority of the engine and start over.
We know we aren't building Flathead Fords because they are the easiest way to cheap horsepower.
We are building these things because they are a great little engine that when done correctly run, sound and look better than they should.
In this day and age where mom's V6 minivan can turn a 14 second E.T. at the drag strip our expectations are higher.
There is nothing wrong with building in as much value as practically possible to keep these beautiful old Fords running great well into the 21st century.
Now it sounds to me that Tod's block will very close to in not fully finished machined with some important improvements to make it a very nice running engine.
Think on that a minute. Think of all the preparation work that must be done BEFORE you send it to the machine shop.
For those who may not be hands on for that process I can tell you it's a ton of work. It's a ton of work and it's a labor of love as well but that work must be accounted for and man hours can be very expensive.
Imagine being able to counter the expense of the hours an engine builder puts in and the machinist charges for all this work against the cost of this engine block.
For me it's a no brainer.
There are even more aftermarket companies that make various cylinder heads for the sbc's.
Now as we all know that is a huge market but we must also understand that the V8 Fords are also a good and healthy market.
When we think of something like this we must remember improving airflow is mostly involving the cylinder block on the Flathead Ford.
A cracked head on an sbc can be discarded and replaced with a better replacement.
With our little Ford V8's we must deal with those cracks or be forced to discard the majority of the engine and start over.
We know we aren't building Flathead Fords because they are the easiest way to cheap horsepower.
We are building these things because they are a great little engine that when done correctly run, sound and look better than they should.
In this day and age where mom's V6 minivan can turn a 14 second E.T. at the drag strip our expectations are higher.
There is nothing wrong with building in as much value as practically possible to keep these beautiful old Fords running great well into the 21st century.
Now it sounds to me that Tod's block will very close to in not fully finished machined with some important improvements to make it a very nice running engine.
Think on that a minute. Think of all the preparation work that must be done BEFORE you send it to the machine shop.
For those who may not be hands on for that process I can tell you it's a ton of work. It's a ton of work and it's a labor of love as well but that work must be accounted for and man hours can be very expensive.
Imagine being able to counter the expense of the hours an engine builder puts in and the machinist charges for all this work against the cost of this engine block.
For me it's a no brainer.
Ol' Ron
Well-known member
Thanks Henry, well said. What Tod proposes to do should make MOST people happy. I wonder what the officials will say when a new block, brakes an old record. I still think there will be more 268 running in the future. If I had the time and money left when one is available, I'd find out just how well it would run. In JWL;s book, he couldnot get 100 hP from a 239 engine, no matter what he did to it on the out side. Now with an improved porting system, I'd expect the new block to far exceed that number, and look the same as when the original was made. Tod, send me one when it's done and we'll find out. That is, if I'm still around./
I got a little done today but I had some running around to do. I went to the foundry to pick up some heads and take some cores for Winfield heads. They broke another head. That's 3 out of 14. Not very good percentage of success. I'll try to sell it at a discount.
I am working on the lifter valley as I work on water jackets since there are common areas that need modeled at the same time. Progressing nicely.
Tod
I am working on the lifter valley as I work on water jackets since there are common areas that need modeled at the same time. Progressing nicely.
Tod
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rotorwrench
Well-known member
Even with the flaw that head will likely make some 4-banger fan happy. Some folks don't realize how many articles don't survive the manufacturing process. Even Ford had a separate machining facility to resurrect some of the flawed parts that didn't pass quality control inspection.
The sheet metal stamping processes also have a percentage of flaws that I imagine are similar to foundry percentages. Some guy skilled with a torch, hammer, and dolly got to do the repairs on some of that stuff.
The sheet metal stamping processes also have a percentage of flaws that I imagine are similar to foundry percentages. Some guy skilled with a torch, hammer, and dolly got to do the repairs on some of that stuff.
A bones
Well-known member
Think of all those high dollar hot rods, ( years like Duece, '34, '40 etc ) with escalating value, and the opportunity to upgrade to an improved new flathead, when that chebby starts getting too noisy.
In a world ( specialized automotive ) where the main energy is desire, real is what real does.
Amen
I'm thinking that many are envious when they see one, but for some stigma they take the more traveled road. This will smooth out the bumps and widen the lanes.
Yes racers are wonderful guys, but more of us, really enjoy the status of public streets.
Model progress is moving along. I have been working on the driver's side water jacket and lifter valley areas when I can. So far, so good. Exterior of the block is pretty much finished.
I think I will need 10-20 commitments when the model is ready for core work and castings to make it doable. Fortunately, I have all the tooling for machining these blocks in machines that I use all the time. Once I have a casting or 2, it shouldn't take long to get the first ones ready for testing.
Tod
I think I will need 10-20 commitments when the model is ready for core work and castings to make it doable. Fortunately, I have all the tooling for machining these blocks in machines that I use all the time. Once I have a casting or 2, it shouldn't take long to get the first ones ready for testing.
Tod
Henry Floored
Well-known member
GB SISSON
Well-known member
I know very little about the casting of an engine block, but I remember my high school shop teacher telling us that one of the reasons the Rambler did not sell like many other cars was because at one time they rushed their castings through without 'seasoning' them for a year out in the back lot. Thus they changed shape a bit which lead to warped surfaces and other maladies. Just wondering if that was ever a real issue and if today's technology has negated any problems in that area. I think your new block is a great idea and long overdue for my favorite engine of all time. Too bad I just bought 8 good blocks as a retirement investment! But seriously I love what you are doing, and can't wait to start seeing them running!
rotorwrench
Well-known member
Ford would cast blocks in lots which were fairly large lots. The castings would come out of the sand removal process and get stacked outside until they were moved to the machining center. I remember seeing photos of Charles Sorensen and others next to large quantities of blocks that were stacked & setting in rows in between processes so I know they set out for a while but I doubt if it was very long.
Racers are the only ones I know of that use a "seasoning" process to normalize cast blocks. Manufacturers rarely had the time to waist on parts setting around.
Racers are the only ones I know of that use a "seasoning" process to normalize cast blocks. Manufacturers rarely had the time to waist on parts setting around.
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Tod:
I'm interested. Is there a rough, ballpark or estimated figure of what the total cost will be for your block?
Understandably, with a project like this, the price could change at any time, but before I commit I was hoping to get a ballpark figure first.
Thanks,
Tim
I'm interested. Is there a rough, ballpark or estimated figure of what the total cost will be for your block?
Understandably, with a project like this, the price could change at any time, but before I commit I was hoping to get a ballpark figure first.
Thanks,
Tim
37fatfender
BANNED
I'm interested, whenever more final details are available please txt or private email me. Thank You.
Ed
Ed
Despite finding out that I am not up to the task of making this block progress continues, while I work on other stuff. I have the core shop working on 3 different projects and delivered a pattern today for a part I do for Snyder's. I have a couple of different new heads to machine and there is the normal daily production.
Right now I am doing detail work in the water jackets. The next week will probably be slow since I am taking a few days off and going out of town for a break.
Tod
Right now I am doing detail work in the water jackets. The next week will probably be slow since I am taking a few days off and going out of town for a break.
Tod
Henry Floored
Well-known member
Hi fellas, I am kicking this thread back to the top to learn if there is a need to "name" this new block.
It's common knowledge that new products need to be marketed. We also have names for regular production Flathead Ford engines.
Names that are really just alpha numeric titles like 81A's and 59AB's and 8BA's. Then there is the "French" Flatty and the V8 60, etc.
I'm sure Tod has some idea what he wants to call his new block. If by chance though it's up for debate I'd like to submit my opinion.
I firmly believe that the Flathead Ford is the "cornerstone" of hot rodding. I thing a very strong case can be made for that.
In light of that I think names like CORNERSTONE or KEYSTONE might be applicable and appropriate for a new product such as this.
In another direction I always thought "POWER KING" would be a great name to revisit again. Ford had that name in the early 50's.
So those are some of my ideas and as I stated before Tod probably has a good idea where he wants to go with this.
I think it would be fun to hear your ideas though. What would a new generation Flathead Ford be called in your mind.
Fire away if you like.
It's common knowledge that new products need to be marketed. We also have names for regular production Flathead Ford engines.
Names that are really just alpha numeric titles like 81A's and 59AB's and 8BA's. Then there is the "French" Flatty and the V8 60, etc.
I'm sure Tod has some idea what he wants to call his new block. If by chance though it's up for debate I'd like to submit my opinion.
I firmly believe that the Flathead Ford is the "cornerstone" of hot rodding. I thing a very strong case can be made for that.
In light of that I think names like CORNERSTONE or KEYSTONE might be applicable and appropriate for a new product such as this.
In another direction I always thought "POWER KING" would be a great name to revisit again. Ford had that name in the early 50's.
So those are some of my ideas and as I stated before Tod probably has a good idea where he wants to go with this.
I think it would be fun to hear your ideas though. What would a new generation Flathead Ford be called in your mind.
Fire away if you like.