Terry Burtz Calif
Senior Member
The attached pdf Written by Budd Davisson will be published in the next issue of the EAA’s Sport Aviation magazine.
Terry Burtz
Terry Burtz
New Airplane Engine
- Thread starter Terry Burtz Calif
- Start date
J Franklin
Well-known member
Great article, thanks.
Incognito-A
Senior Member
Are there any pilots on here who own Model A powered aircraft?
SAJ
Well-known member
Terry, the power and weight statistics are very interesting. It looks like the Burtz engine is quite light without the water - 10 pounds less weight than the Continental, if you add 30 pounds for 3 gallons of water.
That is if I am reading it right.
And I am guessing the Continental has a lot of Aluminium alloy in its construction too. It looks so in photographs on the Continental web site.
Great article. Amazing that a cast iron car engine can be built as light as a purpose-made aero engine with " light" in its description. Especially when Ford originally designed it in the late 1920's and you have added weight with 2 more mains etc.
SAJ in NZ
That is if I am reading it right.
And I am guessing the Continental has a lot of Aluminium alloy in its construction too. It looks so in photographs on the Continental web site.
Great article. Amazing that a cast iron car engine can be built as light as a purpose-made aero engine with " light" in its description. Especially when Ford originally designed it in the late 1920's and you have added weight with 2 more mains etc.
SAJ in NZ
Terry Burtz Calif
Senior Member
SAJ,
The drawing of the Model A cylinder block (A-6050) has a note that specifies 5/32 inch wall thickness unless otherwise noted.
The 1932 and later V-8's had very thick walls until the 260/289/302 family of engines were built with thin walls.
Terry Burtz
The drawing of the Model A cylinder block (A-6050) has a note that specifies 5/32 inch wall thickness unless otherwise noted.
The 1932 and later V-8's had very thick walls until the 260/289/302 family of engines were built with thin walls.
Terry Burtz
SAJ
Well-known member
Terry, 5/32 is only a bit over 1/8 inch which, when I visualize that, sounds very thin for quite large areas cast in sand. Yet even in the Victorian era, they were able to produce some amazing cast objects.
Are your walls thicker than this? Is that where some of the extra weight is?
I was watching 2 Burtz blocks being cleaned and deburred in my workshop by Dave Mossman and a friend yesterday, but I did not look at thicknesses.
I did see that your cast iron is finer grained and harder than the original block, which was sitting on the bench right next to your two. Some of the Ford original castings, like manifolds, are really soft and can be sanded flat very quickly by hand on a granite surface table.
My 2 Burtz engines are still in transit somewhere.Not in a hurry for them though.
SAJ in NZ
Are your walls thicker than this? Is that where some of the extra weight is?
I was watching 2 Burtz blocks being cleaned and deburred in my workshop by Dave Mossman and a friend yesterday, but I did not look at thicknesses.
I did see that your cast iron is finer grained and harder than the original block, which was sitting on the bench right next to your two. Some of the Ford original castings, like manifolds, are really soft and can be sanded flat very quickly by hand on a granite surface table.
My 2 Burtz engines are still in transit somewhere.Not in a hurry for them though.
SAJ in NZ
Terry Burtz Calif
Senior Member
SAJ,
The weight is in the 2 extra main bearings and webs, 2 extra camshaft bearings, extension for the rear main seal, heavier main caps, thicker deck between exhaust ports and cylinders, bosses for all drilled oil passages, and a slightly thicker water jacket wall on the starter side of the engine.
The cylinder block is a harder alloy and that is why we recommend soft grey iron rings that are phosphate coated.
Terry Burtz
The weight is in the 2 extra main bearings and webs, 2 extra camshaft bearings, extension for the rear main seal, heavier main caps, thicker deck between exhaust ports and cylinders, bosses for all drilled oil passages, and a slightly thicker water jacket wall on the starter side of the engine.
The cylinder block is a harder alloy and that is why we recommend soft grey iron rings that are phosphate coated.
Terry Burtz
eagle
Well-known member
I've ridden in one at the Pietenpol fly in in Broadhead WI. Can't remember which year, I think mid to late 90's. It's an amazing aircraft, "low and slow".
Mister Moose
Senior Member
I've owned aircraft in the past, and may again in the future, but they will be
Faster than 150 kts,
IFR equipped
I won't get wet if it rains,
Doesn't have a belt drive magneto,
and doesn't require goggles.
So probably not.
Incognito-A
Senior Member
I think all those points can be addressed (given enough money) except for the 150 kts but I totally understand where you are coming from. My preference for low and slow would be an Ercoupe.
I have a Pietenpol Sky Scout powered by a Model A engine. Aluminum 5.5 to 1 head, magneto driven directly off the crankshaft. This is the typical magneto drive used. I flew Saturday afternoon (36 degrees) for about 45 minutes. Started on the first flip of the prop and ran flawlessly. Cruise speed was 70 to 75 mph and no googles required! I have attached a photo of the Sky Scout.
Bill Liimatainen
Monroe, Wisconsin
Bill Liimatainen
Monroe, Wisconsin
Attachments
eagle
Well-known member
Wow! Looks beautiful. Some Day.... Nothing like an A powered Air Camper or Scout...The only looks change that I'd want is the spoked wheels although the balloon tires are very practical.
Incognito-A
Senior Member
Very nice craft! Did you build this yourself? If so, how long did it take?
Do you hold any ratings besides sport/private?
We were the second owner of the Sky Scout project. Most of the woodwork was complete and we finished it. Took about 2.5 years. I have an Air Camper (2 place Pietenpol) which is close to completion. I fly and own 1930's, 1940's and a 1952 Cessna 170b. Always wanted to build and fly. The old radials take some mechanic skill (along with the Model A converted for aviation) which I do all my own work. Have never flown a nose wheel aircraft in my life! Try to fly frequently as airplanes need to run! I also like the old automobiles and have attached a photo of the 1930 Tudor I am working on. All the work was completed by me including the painting and the old school of hammer and dolly patch work! I like to do things the old way to appreciate the true skill and craftsmanship of years gone by. Brodhead, WI is the home of Model A powered aircraft and Model A people are always welcome!
Bill Liimatainen
Monroe, WI
Bill Liimatainen
Monroe, WI
