Need help on a 180A Door question

K

Ken Ehrenhofer

Well-known member
We are fitting the Dovetails in the doors on a 2 door phaeton and they seem to large to alow the male part to enter. :( We are using the pot metal pieces from the 31 slant window as I think they are the same????
It appears we need to slightly grind on the pot metal to allow the male end to enter. Peter did you have any trouble here??? Both male and female dovetails are repro.
Also does A&L make the rubber parts for the doors???
Thanks any help is appreciated,
Ken
 
I'm not familiar with the 180A dovetails, but I do know that the S/W dovetail inserts are NOT the same as the ones used on older sedans. The common repro door bumper kit for S/W sedans has all the rubber bumpers and dovetail inserts for something like $14. But at the same time the vendors sell individual S/W dovetail inserts for $4 each! Well, the inserts in the kit do NOT actually fit a S/W sedan. They are the wrong shape, and they are missing the grooves on each side. I believe they are meant for the older models. The $4 S/W inserts are totally different, and work fine.

Doug
 
Ken,
This won't be much help. But, in trying to find an answer to your question, I reviewed my "Automotive Hardware and Trimming Supplies" book, "1928 - 1938" which was distributed by Ford, and is a yellow and blue softbound booklet, 164 pages.

Reviewing the dovetails, male, for the door, I found the 180-A as part # A-80419-R. No "L" was listed, but the drawing/photo makes it appear to be interchangable between left and right.

The male dovetail listed for the 160-A (31 SW) is part # BB-336850-B, with a note that the part is "No longer serviced, supply B-46421-B"

In comparison of the drawings of the two male dovetails noted above, it is fairly clear that they are slightly different in size. The 160-B dovetail appears slightly larger.

The book includes 14 female dovetails with the body numbers they apply to. The 180-A and the 160-B are not listed in any of those 14 dovetails. Some help! There is a listing for the B-160 body, and that dovetail is B-46412. Without the female dovetail for the 180-A, I can't help with a comparison.

I know this wasn't much help, but that's all the Ford book had listed. I hope someone else can give you the details. I'd would suggest a call to Bill Sturm or Marco Tahtaras, as I would bet a buck they may know the answer off the tops of their heads.


Dave Lopes
 
will this help your photo'sSave to comp and then you can make larger
 
Last edited:
Ken [ A+ L Does make them and they are nice] dovetails[ i had no problems]. You would want to REplate them. No one makes the correct rubber for the doors. How i made them will be in this coming 180'A New Letter [step by step pictures] Ross has the CD i sent them. He might be able to sent it thru computer. [Call him] .i 'll have my car at Hershey and i have parts to show how its done too. I'll find my info and add to this thread...OK ,,I found my notes. Slant window are different ...A+L sells them for about $10.00 @ [ MALE -dovetails.] ..Rubber is STEELE RUBBER PARTS 1-888-840-7833 Ppart # 70-1155-71 [for 1927-33 Buick PAD DOOR JAMB] and MADE IN THE U.S.A. ..You must sand them down [thinner] and [ shorter] .Use a # 8 wood screw[ gun blue finish] [mine had original flat head and some had dome heads all with a cup washer behind them.[Mine was brass but i used stainless steel trim cups] . People forget FORD did not make the 180'A bodies - BRIGGS did and so they used parts on other car bodies too.
 
Last edited:
If you need the slant window type dovetails then you must use the original springs.

The repro springs are too stiff, with exception to more recent A&L parts. The one guy at A&L was doing a slant sedan and found the doors did not close right. He remember some guy telling him that the springs were wrong. So he put lighter springs in and the door worked.

The sliders for the dovetails on the slants must move with mild finger pressure. Feel an original one so you know. The purpose of the dovetail is to keep the door from moving up and down. They must slide easy. Keep in mind some of the repro back parts are not shaped properly and will cause the sliders to get tighter.

Obviously, I had some problems. There are more issues with the repro parts. I need to put together a webpage one of these days. If you need more info email me.
 
:DWOW! Thanks to all for your responses as always the Ford Barn is the best tool when restoring an old Ford.
Peter I hope to see you in Hershey and we can talk dove tails. I look forward to your article, no body has written about that subject. We can also discuss door rubber??
Kevin, any idea how to get the right size spring?? The ones we have are quite strong....:confused:
Dave good to see you on the barn and I hope you are doing great. I think you will enjoy the back cover of the upcoming Model A News! Going to print right now.....Ha ha......Watch for it....;)
Thanks to all for trying to help,
Ken
 
Gary WA said:
will this help your photo'sSave to comp and then you can make larger
Click to expand...

Thinks for posting this! It reminded me of an interesting issue: Several types of male dovetails (including the S/W ones) come in three styles: one with the dovetail centered, and two others with the dovetail offset either left or right. For S/W versions, all the vendor catalogs state that the centered style is for the rear doors, one offset style is for the left front door, and the opposite offset style is for the right front door. But if you look at a S/W car carefully, you do not see any reason why the front doors should be different than the rears: the dovetails, latches, rubber bumpers, etc. are identical. The body parts catalog I have (the common repro) does not say which doors the different styles are meant to fit.

I suspect that they made the different styles to accommodate random warps and sags in the body, frame, etc. The expectation was that the anybody replacing a male dovetail would choose whatever style best lined up with the female dovetail. Does that sound reasonable?

Doug
 
Kevin in NJ said:
If you need the slant window type dovetails then you must use the original springs.

The repro springs are too stiff, with exception to more recent A&L parts. The one guy at A&L was doing a slant sedan and found the doors did not close right. He remember some guy telling him that the springs were wrong. So he put lighter springs in and the door worked.
Click to expand...

Are the "wrong" springs the kind with a flare at one end? That's the style that comes with the "wrong" dovetails included in the S/W rubber bumper kit. They are definitely a lot stiffer than the original springs. The proper repro S/W dovetails that I got a couple of weeks ago had a non-flared spring that seemed quite close to the original one.

Doug
 
For correct springs contact A&L.

I used the original springs and back part of the original dovetails. I also had to use hand modified NOS V8 sliders. They had the same basic shape with a tail off the back. I made the side notch for the dimple in the back part of the case.

Both the repro dovetails do not have the cases formed properly. The lip around the backside and the counter sunk holes are too deep and cause the top surface to stick out too far. I put mine on a mill and brought them down to factory height. Compare the originals to the repos and you will see.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top