Need help at Macungie P.A. Meet.

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Fred , Could you feel right having your car being judge[ and you don't judge your car you stand to the side] but yet you get to judge every car that you are going against??? I am sorry but ,do you know how many judges judged my car and there cars were parked next to mine?? ALL in one same class...Sorry that should not be ! You have a car being judged you should not be a judge. As far as MARC/MAFCA meets and A.A.C.A. meets and locale too some of us still must go to work.MARC/MAFCA meets gets dragged in a whole week .A.A.C.A. your done in sometimes 1 day! I have judged Hershey and show my car all in 1 day [sometimes] Canadaigua A.A.C.A. meet ,drove up Friday nite ,took a knap for 5 hours, woke up ,,put the car on the show field at 8:00 a.m. ,,off at 4:30 and home at 11:30 that nite. And i ask you what will happen if i get involved and start judging MARC/MAFCA meets??? I see a Past President,judging standard comm. 40+ member of MARC/MAFCA /judging at A.A.C.A. now and not MARC/MAFCA meets??? WHY?? I know he has the time and the money forsure...He is P.O about something .And i know of some well known judges in one of the clubs will not judge at the other club meet. Will not even cross the street from his house if it was that close to his home..WHY? And you want me to get INVOLVED in something like that>> sorry no way..
 
Pete, In the first of your last post, BEEN down that road; GET OVER IT!! I DID.. BEST for you is either take OFF all the know RE-POP junk & the after market stuff that you admit to having on the car or dont show it in fine point.. GO buy the Plymouth you saw & show it in & stay in the AACA & drop out of both MODEL A CLUBS as you have done enough damage...
 
peters180a/170b said:
Could you feel right having your car being judge[ and you don't judge your car you stand to the side] but yet you get to judge every car that you are going against??? I am sorry but ,do you know how many judges judged my car and there cars were parked next to mine?? ALL in one same class...Sorry that should not be ! You have a car being judged you should not be a judge.)

that i agree with 100% that falls into the bad ethics category i was talking about.
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Oh, is this the FIRST year its been done that way ??. You knew full well going in how it was done & has been... Dont like it, Dont go, Or get involved & change it !!
 
Fred ,as many have already done, dropped out! Find a buyer for my Phaeton [CASH] comes with a n.o.s. wire harness and Terminal box to cutout wire too and extra hard to find 180A parts then all you need is a set of orginial hoses,, and i'll have that rare 1932 Plymonth roadster in my driveway the next day or afternoon as soon as when i have the CASH in hand.!!!!!!!!!! But i am keeping the 170B.:)
 
peters180a/170b said:
.....And i ask you what will happen if i get involved and start judging MARC/MAFCA meets??? .....

..... And you want me to get INVOLVED in something like that>> sorry no way..
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You did get involved.
You built an excellent car.
You showed it in Fine Point at the MARC National in French Lick.
You received the third highest score at the National Meet.
You received the coveted Henry award.

And subsequent to that, you also have been incessantly making whine out of sour grapes on fordbarn, complaining about the scoring you received, making allegations that the judges and judging was biased (against you), and generally spitting in the eye of all of your fellow enthusiasts who took the time and consideration to judge your car, as you chose to build it.

At this point, is there anyone left reading this thread who is appreciative you brought your car to the National, or wants to see you bring another in the future?

Is there anyone who really would want you involved in MARC/MAFCA judging as a fine point judge with the views and attitudes you have expressed in this thread?
 
peters180a/170b said:
Could you feel right having your car being judge[ and you don't judge your car you stand to the side] but yet you get to judge every car that you are going against??? I am sorry but ,do you know how many judges judged my car and there cars were parked next to mine?? ALL in one same class...Sorry that should not be ! You have a car being judged you should not be a judge.
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I don't know how many years MARC did this, but in 2005 they REQUIRED all entrants to participate in the judging. In many ways it was a pain in the rear because it turned a seven hour day into a nine hour day. However I spoke with several of those entrants (and now judges) at the end of the day and ALL I heard was praise for the system and ethics displayed. They had absolutely no idea what everyone went through to make it work until they were FORCED to participate in the process. The bottom line is 99% of the bitching is from those that stand outside and look in through the window.

There is one other point I'd like to make based on my experience. Generally (there are a few exceptions), the judges on the floor are only as good as a car they have restored. Personally I DO NOT want to show without those restorers on the judging floor.
 
AT pg. 7 with 129 threads and not holding at 4,298 views i take it some people appreciate of my [ whining as you put it] . NO, i have not involved myself in MARC/MAFCA judging as a judge. But involved in having 2 cars judged in both clubs. YES, i am told i built a excellent car [ correction, Henry did,, i just restored it back as close as possible correctly].YES it was at the French Lick for fine point judging and i THANK Very much the company i hung out with [ fun,fun,fun] and still having fun ,fun,fun.[some of them are having fun reading this thread].Yes ,third highest score [which some people still have questions about on a low score" by long time judges",, thats what started this thread].YES i did take the Henry but that does not mean [SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP as one judge said to me NOT TO DO!]. Last nite over the phone i was again asked by another judge to become a judge[we need you to judge] and with your attitude! That's makes 3 judges this week as more are told to read what's going on here on the barn. It's a wakeup call to some. Shake the good old boys "group"" club" up.
 
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Marco , At this time again i thank you for "ALL" the fine help over the "YEARS" with the 180A [It been FUN]. BUT and i say BUT YOU and YOUR Roadster set the standards to the highest judging bar! Example , you are the "ONLY" ONE that i was told could "CORRECTLY" install the TRIM,EDGE BINBING on a top for roadster's and Deluxe Phaeton.40+ years Bill S. will say [I DON'T KNOW HOW Marco did it?].Its the same material on the seats and he got it thin and able to work with it on the top edge. So every D. Roadster /D.Phaeton. will get a [Deduction from 1 club] and accept by the other club who respects Bill S. top /upholstery with 40+years of work as the best one can do.Also ALL 180A's as a standard item was the top booth. The material does not exist ![Deduction from 1 club ,,same club as first Deduction] This means a person Restoring a D.Roadster/D.Phaeton will be accepted by one group of judges and not by another. Some material will always get a Deduction no matter what you can come up with and as close as one can get .So before i drive out of my trailer to a National MARC/MAFCA meet i am behind the 8 ball on points with this 1 club group? Guess the best one can do is not good enough .As a few judges had said The bar was set to high to compete and get that better view on the top of that ladder! You know Marco ,how many Deluxe cars got to the top compared to standard models. Not many! its easy to restore a fine point car if you work with 28/29 tudors ,coupes,roadsters.
 
Peter, The last sentance in your last post was most interesting. IF you pick the right year and body style you get a better chance of a PERFECT SCORE? Has this ever happened, if so what was the car. As a former AACA Judge who quit after 30 years of it I find this thread to be a great read.
 
forever4 said:
You did get involved.
You built an excellent car.
You showed it in Fine Point at the MARC National in French Lick.
You received the third highest score at the National Meet.
You received the coveted Henry award!!!!!!!!!.
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To be honest i don't think 1 person "Appreciates" what is going on.
Finds Humor in this feed YES
Discourages Future fine point YES
Discourages Future restoration YES
Discourages Future Judging YES
Discourages Future Members YES

So....Who are we "waking" up here in reality???
The future of our club....that is who, and NOT to participate in any aspect of it any more...YES YES YES

Stop already!
 
Pete,

The sad thing I see with you starting this POST is the position that some

of the A'ers have expressed " I'LL NEVER ENTER MY A IN BLUE RIBBON

JUDGING "



Does it bother you to realize that you may have discouraged others ?

Ron
 
Goals

If ones goal is to have a car with the highest score at a national meet I think the best way to do that is to buy one that has already won. If one wants to restore a car and enter it in a national meet then one has to decide on how one wants to accomplish the task. It is often said that when making something there are three factors Cost, Time and Quality, pick two. If one wants the best Quality then one has to sacrifice either Time or Cost.

Time in this case would consist of searching, research and experience. Searching would be looking for the best parts at a reasonable price. Going to lots of swap meets, looking on line and making contacts with as many people as possible to find the parts. Research would be finding out what is correct for ones car. This would start with the JS. One would also have to find as much original literature as possible and talk to the people who are recognized as knowledgeable. Experience in this case would be knowing what details cause judges to take off points. The best way to do this is to talk to as many judges as possible. I think that one can best learn this by being a judge. While judging one will learn what is acceptable and what is not. It would be best to judge in every area at least once to learn all that one can.

Cost is just that, MONEY. One can "buy" a high point restoration if one has the budget. With enough money one could hire many of the recognized experts to restore/overlook a restoration.

For me points and trophies are not the goal. I feel that the reward for doing a good job on a restoration is how I judge my work. It is nice to have other admire what I have done but I would rather please myself than others. After all it is my car not theirs.

Finally, comments on this board may or may not improve the way the cars are judged at the meets. One can publicly complain about the judging and if the complaints are loud and frequent it can result in changes. But there will be some bad feelings between the person complaining and the people making the changes. However improvements are more likely if one were to work from the inside. If one where to become part of the system that decides on the rules one could have a greater influence on "fixing" the rules. Or perhaps a better understanding of why the rules are the way they are and how they are used.

Just one persons opinion
Bob
 
Let me try to settle a little dust here....it may be in vein, but for what it's worth:

1. Lets try to give Pete the benefit of the doubt....WAIT! not about the judging of his car, but with regard to his original post. He asked for people to help him figure out the score he received when he was at the Macungie meet. That doesn't sound like a bad thing. Truth is that none of us have any idea (except the judges who saw his car that have chimed in) how fair his car was judged. Mistakes happen. I don't know whether or not any were made, not my point here, just that we probably shouldn't use the word 'whine' anymore with regard to this post. It just doesn't make things any better.

2. Pete, sorry, but you have gone about your goal all wrong. The request to meet some people and discuss your car wasn't bad, but I have to admit, that every post you present seems to make you out as a sore loser. You'd be better off meeting with the people and let them see your car in person. If your objective is to co-miserate with them and have a witch-hunt for judges, then you are, infact, a whiner. If your motivation is to better understand if it was your car, or mistakes that happened in judging, then good for you, that is what you should do. Get a lot of opinions, talk to those responsible for keeping the judging rules, and change things for the better. But please don't make one more post here that describes how you were screwed and turn people away.

3. People, don't stop creating fine judging cars and entering them because of this nonsense. This is stupid, unimportant, opinionated forum posting. The hobby is much bigger than this. It is a learning curve, and always changing like everything else. Maybe Pete is resistent to change...who knows. If you like fine point and want a HUGE challenge, then go for it.

4. The next post on this topic should be Pete' in about a month, letting us know how successful he was in finding out what did or didn't go wrong, and if he was able to make any positive changes to the judging rules....I SAID POSITIVE Pete, not lowering the standards, or before long, a Henry won't mean anything.

might sound like attitude, but this is just my overall observance of this muck and is JMHO. Tom
 
This is not directed at Pete. I just have a question.

If all the corrections were made to suit those exact same judges and they judged the car again would it receive a perfect score?


Larry B.
 
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