Need a little help with identifying this distributor

[runmikeyrun]

Hi all.

I have our original fire engine here at work that I am getting back on the road. Unfortunately, a lot of this truck has been repaired piece by piece over the years by well-meaning firefighters but who documented absolutely none of their work. It's a 1942, but long story short someone replaced the original motor with a 1955-57 272 Y block, which I confirmed by researching engine numbers. The truck runs ok... it has some issues with wanting to die off idle so I am sorting things out one by one, but i'm stuck on the distributor and pulley timing marks at the moment.

The dist. part number is C0TF 12102 D. Based on what I can find, it's a 1960 model distributor but I can't find much of anything else as far as how it's hooked up etc. There are two vacuum lines hooked up to it, but no vacuum diaphragm. It still has the original points, which I plan to change out to a pertronix unit, but I'd like to make sure it's connected and adjusted properly, which at the moment I think it's not.

I looked through some old manuals on the oldcarmanualproject.com for 1960 Ford trucks and it does appear there was a distributor that year that only had a mechanical advance. However, there's no more information other than advance adjustment.

I have attached some pictures. The vacuum lines attached to it are from manifold vacuum and ported vacuum. I think one of the stubs coming off are a tach drive? Also, what is the large slotted screw on the base with the wire tie coming off of it?

As for the timing marks... there is no dampener with marks attached, so I'm assuming it self-destructed a long time ago like most of them do. I have a groove that is stamped on both sides of the pulley, and also a dot on one side of the pulley not far from the groove. I have highlighted them with some yellow paint. I'm assuming one is TDC. It also appears that there are some marks engraved into the V part of the pulley, but it's very difficult to tell. I'd like to know which is which so I can set timing from there.


Thanks in advance.

 

[scicala]

The "T" in the part number says it was from a truck. The distributor says it was from a heavy truck with governor. I believe the tack drive is for the governor operation, but not positive on that. I'm thinking it will run OK as is if you leave the lines disconnected, but again not sure.
As for the timing marks, The mark to the right in your picture should be top dead center, and the mark to the left should be where you set the timing at idle (5 or 6 degrees ?). Y-Blocks run better with the timing set to approx. 10 degrees at idle. Make sure the distributor has centrifugal advance or it won't advance at all without vac line hooked up.
These are all my best guesses based on some experience


Sal

 

[Oldmics]

I found the part # listed in my 57 - 63 Ford Truck "Text" book.


It refers to the Ford Truck "Illustration" book of the same period that I do not have for the hookup.


Perhaps somebody has the 57 - 63 Ford Truck Illustration book with the pictures for how it hooks up.


Oldmics

 

[40 Deluxe]

Yes, it's from the heavy duty truck (F600 and up) The tach drive has nothing to do with the governor. The vacuum lines go to a special Holley carb that has an additional vacuum diaphragm to control engine speed. When the engine hit governed speed (say 3800) a valve in the distributor base switched vacuum to close down the throttle plates to prevent overspeeding the engine. The carb and distributor have to match each other. Older truck manuals such as a Motor Manual show the details.

 

[KULTULZ]

... whooeee ...

You are going to need a 1956 FORD TRUCK SHOP MANUAL-

1956 FORD PICKUP & TRUCK FACTORY REPAIR SHOP & SERVICE MANUAL - INCLUDES: F-100, F-250, F-350, F-500, F-600, F-700, F-750, F-800, F-900, P-350, P-500, C-500, C-600, C-700, C-750, C-800, C-900. T-700, T-750 & T-800, all 4 x 2 and 4 x 4

...and...

You have a 272HD most likely with a governor and IMO will beat your head against the wall without this literature.

Keep the board informed.
​

​

 

[streetdreams]

Can't he just ditch it and run with a pass car type distributor ?

 

[40 Deluxe]

Can't he just ditch it and run with a pass car type distributor ?

He could, but if they ever want to pump water at a show, having the governor will keep the engine at the right RPM. That is assuming the engine was installed with the governor operating in the first place. Otherwise a '57 & up distributor and carb from a car or pickup will work.

 

[runmikeyrun]

Hi everyone. Thanks for your replies! I really appreciate it.

The truck has a Holley 4160 carb, added to the vehicle god knows when, which I rebuilt and now works as it should. I won't be switching to the carb that matches the distributor, and the chances of me replacing the distributor are slim to none. What you said about running the pump and controlling engine speed makes total sense, however the pump has an independent throttle control and associated cable so the governor isn't required. Therefore I'm not worried about over rev, but more interested in getting the distributor to operate properly in regards to driving.

I do find it odd that the distributor utilizes vacuum without a diaphragm, although I noticed you said the diaphragm was attached at the carb on the original setup. At this time, without the matching carburetor, does having either vacuum line attached do anything in regards to the advance? I am going to try and find the manuals suggested, that will be a tremendous amount of help. I may have to drive to Cleveland, their library is quite enormous.

The timing information is very helpful, thank you!

I will keep you guys posted on progress. The truck was previously wired with both 6 and 12 volt systems so at the moment I am re-wiring the entire thing. Thanks again for all your help.

 

[KULTULZ]

I do find it odd that the distributor utilizes vacuum without a diaphragm, although I noticed you said the diaphragm was attached at the carb on the original setup. At this time, without the matching carburetor, does having either vacuum line attached do anything in regards to the advance? I am going to try and find the manuals suggested, that will be a tremendous amount of help. I may have to drive to Cleveland, their library is quite enormous.

Those manuals are available reprint or on CD so it might be a good investment just for the engine repair.

 

[runmikeyrun]

Those manuals are available reprint or on CD so it might be a good investment just for the engine repair.

Yep, I see them online. I searched several library collections and no one has it, I'm not totally surprised by that, but it was worth 5 minutes to search.

Thanks again.

 

[runmikeyrun]

Just to clarify, I'm looking specifically for the manual that shows the connections related to the distributor. The 1956 Ford Truck service manual is the one that will show that?

 

[scicala]

If the engine does not have the original type governor Holley carburetor, and you are not changing the distributor, the best you can do is run the distributor with centrifugal advance only and leave the distributor as is with no vacuum lines hooked up. You would have less spark advance at light loads and slightly less fuel economy. For your application, I don't think optimum fuel economy is a concern.


Sal

 

[40 Deluxe]

Hi everyone. Thanks for your replies! I really appreciate it.

The truck has a Holley 4160 carb, added to the vehicle god knows when, which I rebuilt and now works as it should. I won't be switching to the carb that matches the distributor, and the chances of me replacing the distributor are slim to none. What you said about running the pump and controlling engine speed makes total sense, however the pump has an independent throttle control and associated cable so the governor isn't required. Therefore I'm not worried about over rev, but more interested in getting the distributor to operate properly in regards to driving.

I do find it odd that the distributor utilizes vacuum without a diaphragm, although I noticed you said the diaphragm was attached at the carb on the original setup. At this time, without the matching carburetor, does having either vacuum line attached do anything in regards to the advance? I am going to try and find the manuals suggested, that will be a tremendous amount of help. I may have to drive to Cleveland, their library is quite enormous.

The timing information is very helpful, thank you!

I will keep you guys posted on progress. The truck was previously wired with both 6 and 12 volt systems so at the moment I am re-wiring the entire thing. Thanks again for all your help.

Those vacuum lines are only for the governor (in combination with the original carb). They have nothing at all to do with timing so either remove or ignore them. Just make sure the mechanical advance is working or the engine will be a dog and overheat under load.

 

[KULTULZ]

!!! HOLD IT !!!
​

I told you wrong, forget the 56 TRUCK SHOP MANUAL.

I think the 272HD was replaced by the 292 in 1957/58.

So if you actually have a 272HD and a 1960 distributor, it is hard to say what all has happened to that engine.

We need to regroup...

EDIT-

If you just want to find theory, maybe something like this-

Carburetors, distributors, and governors – Holley Visual Aid Instruction Series HSC-200 covering carburetors, distributors, and governors. 8 ½ x 11 inches by 12 pages. This was a Holley school handout, and contains full page circuit diagrams of the various circuits. Extremely informative, and suitable for framing if desired. Unused school material. Stock number Lit-0146. Price $10.00.

http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Carbshop_lit-Holley.htm

 

[runmikeyrun]

Well, interestingly enough, the download for that manual I attempted from MRE manuals had a Trojan in the software so I ended up putting in a claim for a refund. Thank goodness for virus protection programs.

I don’t have my binder of information in front of me to provide the actual info, but I dated the block from 55-57 and 272 cu in based on the casting numbers. The intake is a 4bbl Ford Factory intake but not for that motor from what I was told on another site. And then yes, someone added a distributor from yet another motor, which required them to remove part of the firewall on the truck. Which was probably acceptable in the 1960s and 70s when the guy at the parts counter or someone mechanically inclined could make things like this work. But 40 some years later it’s a bit tougher. I have 25 years of experience with vintage motorcycles but not a lot with old cars. I do appreciate your help on all of this!

 

[dmsfrr]

... I dated the block from 55-57 and 272 cu in based on the casting numbers. The intake is a 4bbl Ford Factory intake but not for that motor from what I was told on another site. And then yes, someone added a distributor from yet another motor, ...

Unfortunately this situation is pretty normal.

Here's a couple links for identifying casting numbers and such, that may/may not be the ones you already found.

http://www.y-block.info/castings.html
(scroll down on the individual pages to see all available charts)

http://www.ford-y-block.com/technical.htm


FWIW... some early 60's Y-block powered HD trucks did have a tach drive distributor with a mechanical cable to a dash mounted tachometer.
The suggestion that you install a more usual '57 to '64 oem car or light truck distributor would resolve the unknowns of the vacuum line plumbing for the dist currently on the engine.
.

 

[KULTULZ]

Well, interestingly enough, the download for that manual I attempted from MRE manuals had a Trojan in the software so I ended up putting in a claim for a refund. Thank goodness for virus protection programs.

... sheesh...

I am sorry about that. I have downloaded just one item at that site.

 

[runmikeyrun]

Hey, no worst, no worries, it happens. I will finish the wiring, then see what’s up with the distributor once it’s running, then go from there. I just want to make sure the vacuum lines were hooked up properly and weren’t adding to my driveabity issue. Once I get that sorted I
Out I will swap the points for the pertronix. My ultimate goal is reliability- if someone calls and says then need the truck for a parade, funeral etc I want it to start, drive, and return every time with no issues.
I

 

[KULTULZ]

Can't he just ditch it and run with a pass car type distributor ?

Unfortunately this situation is pretty normal.

The suggestion that you install a more usual '57 to '64 oem car or light truck distributor would resolve the unknowns of the vacuum advance plumbing for the dist currently on the engine..

You know, you guys are correct. There is no telling what the engine came out of, whether PASS CAR, LT or HT. The distributor shown may just be something that was installed as that was all on hand.

I a$$-u-me(ed) the engine was HD but it would have to be dissected on a forensics bench to determine that.

Now after saying that, it seems that present exchange distributors (CARDONE #30-2808) are coming through assembled incorrectly.

And the vacuum advance feature has to be there.

Details here- http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic133762.aspx

 

[runmikeyrun]

Those vacuum lines are only for the governor (in combination with the original carb). They have nothing at all to do with timing so either remove or ignore them. Just make sure the mechanical advance is working or the engine will be a dog and overheat under load.

Hi 40, thanks for your reply. I was scratching my head trying to figure out how those vacuum lines could possibly advance the timing when there was no diaphragm etc. So I will pull them and cap on both ends, then set the static timing and check to make sure it's advancing.

I do have some manual pages i downloaded from a 1960 Ford and Mercury service manual that outline checking a distributor that is only mechanical advance, and also outlines setting timing. Hopefully things will work out ok, will probably just take some TLC.

Thanks again everyone... the wiring is coming along and I'm hoping to be done in the next couple weeks and get to the timing/replacing the points plate with pertronix.