My A coupe won't start...... again!

Terry NJ

Terry NJ

Well-known member
This is getting tiresome! Everytime the damn thing won't start, I start a new thread about it, a couple of days later, After playing with it, It starts and I think it's fixed. It'll run great for a while and then, for no reason, it won't start after shutting it off. It's not sparking. What could it be? I've been over it many times with the meter (Volts and Ohm) New Nu-rex Ign. switch. New condenser. A couple of nights ago, when I fixed the speedometer, it did it to me. I gave up in disgust, Horn and lights wouldn't work either (Cold Engine) No voltage at the coil or points. Next morning, everything was OK! It ran fine for three days, I had it out for a ride today, brought it in the drive way, turned it off, now it won't start. Again!
Terry
 
Terry, is it possible that one of the through bolts in the terminal box is intermittently grounding out against the firewall? I had this happen in our Tudor and made rubber disks to insulate the bolt heads.
 
Pilotdave said:
Terry, is it possible that one of the through bolts in the terminal box is intermittently grounding out against the firewall? I had this happen in our Tudor and made rubber disks to insulate the bolt heads.
Click to expand...

I too have seen this happen and used a dab of caulking on the back to insulate the screws from the firewall.
 
A common mistake in troubleshooting is when one jumps around when the problem occurs. You have to follow an orderly set of instructions each and every time.

OK using the set of instructions given to you by Tom Endy where does the voltage disappear?
 
Get your test light and start at the starter switch and move to each terminal box post, then the coil black wire.
Where does the light quit working?
 
Hi terry,

Experiencing an unresolved, intermittent "No-Start-Electrical-Flow Moment" can cause any Model A owner to feel depressed; however, only during this "No start" moment can anyone pinpoint exactly "where" the electrical flow stops and/or is interrupted.

Electrical (+) ground wires and electrical (-) hot wires were described years ago in the early 1930 Basic Electrical Books to be similar to water flowing through a pipe.

For example, a broken wire or a poorly connected wire was explained to be similar to a broken pipe or a poorly connected pipe ..... where either electrical flow in a wire or water flow in a pipe is interrupted.

Starting at the beginning of the water source, or in this case, at the beginning of the electrical source, (i.e., battery (+) & (-) wires), and following the flow all the way to where it needs to end, (i.e., the spark plugs) is of primary importance.

Always try to welcome this "Intermittent-No-start-Moment" ..... this is the time to "attack" with some sort of testing device like a multi-meter or test lamp to pin point "where" the flow stops between the battery and the spark plugs.

Marking the routes on a wiring diagram, (with a marker), helps one, (especially seniors), to remember to check "every" single electrical route in sequence.

The electrical problem will always be located where "least" expected .... i.e., where you "never" checked before ..... and it will always be the "last" wire or connections checked .... because after electrical interruption is located ..... you will quit checking. LOL
 
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If you have that fuse on top of your starter, by pass it and see if that helps. Those little rivets come loose and can give you fits. Get the rivets out of the circuit.
 
Check your ignition switch wires if you just had the dash panel off to work on the speedometer.
 
Chuck lost current in the junction box, even though the nuts were TIGHT & NO visible signs of corrosion!
He whipped off the nuts/wires, & added STAR washers & it was OK!
Bill W.
 
I will try everything! Thanks Guys! I haven't tried very much because of my anger. I had to get away from it!
Terry
 
With similar, continuous intermittent electrical problems over a lenghty period that you are presently experiencing, and with performing electrical testing by bouncing around from pillar to post, and not charting specific wiring routes from point A to B, these hit and miss diagnostic methods have been suggested on Model A Forums for over 20 years ..... and continuously trying and guessing at these suggested somewhat failure methods are the real root of your anger and frustration.

Get a wiring diagram, read it like a road map, mark where you have been, and proceed from your electrical source to your final destination, i.e., battery to spark plug.

Anybody who drives a car can recognize simple highway interruptions and/or simple electrical interruptions ...... similar to a bridge out, a heard of cows in your path, water over the bridge ..... your multi-meter or test lamp can clearly see all of these "invisible" electrical interruptions and help you from trying to jump off of a cliff.

Remember, you can see cows in the road but you cannot see electrical current flowing through wires. LOL
 
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http://www.grantmaclaren.com/terrystips/icw.jpg

This link may help,you troubleshoot your electrical system. There is an electrical diagram in this link that should be helpful.

If you are losing voltage on both sides of the coil, you likely have a problem in the junction box on the firewall or behind the dash. It has been mentioned by others to use a jumper wire between the two terminals on the terminal box on the firewall. If you have no power to either side of the coil, place the jumper wire of the terminal box connections. If you then have power, you know your problem is in the terminal box or behind the dash.

Don't get discouraged or angry. Just start troubleshooting using the advice that has been offered, and the diagram in this link. Take your time, and if you start to get upset, just walk away for a bit, and think about what your diagnostic test are telling you. Then come back and continue your diagnostic test.

Good luck, and don't hesitate to ask more questions.
 
Terry, 2x on JacksonIII's suggestion. A good friend had a similar issue with his fuse holder - an old timer showed him that there was some corrosion interfering with current flow from the fuse to the fuse clips. My friend replaced the commonly used fuse holder with a sealed one that the elements cannot affect. Best part is that it's so easy to check!
 
It happens every time! After reading the OP's problem, I formulate my answer as I scroll down through the responses. None match mine until almost the VERY last one!!! And sure enough! There it is: what I was going to suggest. RATS!!! There goes my scoop!
Anyway, "JacksonIII" advised exactly what I was going to suggest: by-pass any fuse in the system, especially the crappy cheap-*ssed ones on the starter switch. They are (or were) cheaply made and tend to break current because the soldering is so poorly done. A friend's 1929 Cabriolet would cut out at higher speeds, although everything had been checked. It turns out that the fuse junction on the starter switch would breakdown under heavy load because of poor construction and soldering. Normal speeds and starting, no problem. My guess is, though, that would have eventually happened.
Follow "JacksonIII's" advice and by-pass ANY fuse in the electrical system temporarily and see if that solves the problem. A little moisture or overnight rusting between the soldered area can compromise a fuse link design like this until it dries out or is acted upon some other way to re-establish contact.
Marshall
 
True to form, Today it started! Did something cool off and make contact? However, I did find that the LH long screw/bolt in the terminal box is slightly loose, not a lot, in fact very little. But I just don't see how this would account for it, but nevertheless, I will tighten it. I will also bi pass that fuse "thingie" on my starter. The fuse holder has no solder on it, it uses 10 X 32 screws. But it is one more thing that can go wrong so even if it's not the problem I'll eliminate the possibility. Talk about how far upstream the problem might be? The time before this, when it cut out I just went over it with my Volt meter and the lights and horn weren't working. And I couldn't couldn't get any voltage on either side of the coil. But I did get voltage to the starter (Starter spun) and past the fuse, but the ammeter was dead. Does that tell anybody anything? One more thing, When you are talking about the Terminal screws/bolts, do you mean the two long bolts that the wires attach to, or the four smaller screws at the four corners. Once again, I want to thank everyone for their help in this very frustrating problem!
Terry
 
sounds like it's time to buy a donkey and a hitching rope.............

the A will always "move" as long as the donkey is well fed!
 
Hi Terry,

About ten years ago when I bought a voltage regulator from Mr. John Regan, Engineer and President of Fun Projects, Inc., he told me about how many of their Model T tours were ruined with break-downs caused by the malfunctioning of different questionable manufacturers of these "top of starter" mounted fuses exposed to the elements. He advised to get rid of it.

I had never had a problem with mine; however, some Forum members described and claimed which ones were good, and which others not.

Ten years ago, I took mine off ..... figured why take chances with a fuse exposed to the weather and take chances with any possible type of known past repeated and reported electrical failures.

Maintaining a top of starter mounted exposed fuse sounded to me like this made about as much sense as Model A owner who started smoking as an experiment to prove to other Model A owners which manufacturer of cigarettes could later cause lung cancer.
 
If you have that brass finger that replaces the wire, in the distributor, take it off and throw it as far as you can. Replace with the longer wire that all the parts people sell. Humidity and a damp morning will give you fits.
 
Don't start throwing things away from, or at the car until you troubleshoot it. If you can't figure out the wiring diagram, print it off, and bring it and the car to an old mechanic, he will fix it. Even if he's never saw an A before, the A wiring will be very simple compared to even the simplest semi modern car. And Do NOT bypass a fuse in a car that already has electrical issues. Unless you keep a fire extinguisher handy and your insurance paid up.:(
 
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