Russ/40
Well-known member
Your rods need to be reconditioned if you make the change to inserts, as the rods were running floaters and are oversize by now. You need to mic everything to find out where you are with everything.
My 59 ab flathead /// What I have?
- Thread starter ratamahata
- Start date
Your rods need to be reconditioned if you make the change to inserts, as the rods were running floaters and are oversize by now. You need to mic everything to find out where you are with everything.
Bruce Lancaster
Member Emeritus
It's a normal '49 up crank and rods...I think that .15 thickness is ballpark correct for normal late bearings, though I have no scrap iron here in the office to measure.
All this stuff is bolt-in on the early block and a bit cheaper than 59 type parts...
Canadian locked bearings would be thicker to use the space for floating type bearings.
It would also be REALLY odd for obscure Canadian parts to turn up in Argentina...
Argentina was supplied by Ford USA.
Engine can potentially take any '39-53 crank without any issues beyond knowing what parts fit what.
I believe but have no documentation that Ford built 59 engines with the late crank for a while...possibly even in engines going into production vehicles late in '48. They also I believe continued producing 59 engines for sale as parts after 1948...this stuff became the universal replacement engine for all early Ford V8's so market was huge.
The late parts were in full production use during the last year of early Ford production, as the trucks went to late engine for 1948 model year, and it's hard to believe that Ford failed to notice that the cheaper parts could rplace the Henry parts and save a few bucks on each unit.
(to get back to practical issues here...you have everything you need, all you have to do to rebuild lower end can be accomplished with those rods and crank and normal '49 Ford bearings)
All this stuff is bolt-in on the early block and a bit cheaper than 59 type parts...
Canadian locked bearings would be thicker to use the space for floating type bearings.
It would also be REALLY odd for obscure Canadian parts to turn up in Argentina...
Argentina was supplied by Ford USA.
Engine can potentially take any '39-53 crank without any issues beyond knowing what parts fit what.
I believe but have no documentation that Ford built 59 engines with the late crank for a while...possibly even in engines going into production vehicles late in '48. They also I believe continued producing 59 engines for sale as parts after 1948...this stuff became the universal replacement engine for all early Ford V8's so market was huge.
The late parts were in full production use during the last year of early Ford production, as the trucks went to late engine for 1948 model year, and it's hard to believe that Ford failed to notice that the cheaper parts could rplace the Henry parts and save a few bucks on each unit.
(to get back to practical issues here...you have everything you need, all you have to do to rebuild lower end can be accomplished with those rods and crank and normal '49 Ford bearings)
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ratamahata
Well-known member
Many thanks for the info guys, you are very helpful for me , like my grandfather was, no offends old guys ha ha!!
Bruce Lancaster
Member Emeritus
Thrte ARE floater bearings sitting there...but...???
It would take considerable oversizing on the late rods...and I believe floaters are thicker than the number shown.
What was actually in there, and what sre the dimensions of big ends??
Something odd and interesting here...
But the rods and crank are normal 8BA types. What was modified and how?
It would take considerable oversizing on the late rods...and I believe floaters are thicker than the number shown.
What was actually in there, and what sre the dimensions of big ends??
Something odd and interesting here...
But the rods and crank are normal 8BA types. What was modified and how?
ratamahata
Well-known member
Ok I'll take some measures and then let's hear some opinions!!
georgewarren
Senior Member
I do remember in the late fifties seeing a 59 A-B being built for circle track racing; it had later rods honed out for full floating bearings, and the honing exposed the rod bolts at the rod cap parting lines. The builder felt that the full floaters where better than the insert type bearing. What I noticed in the ensuing years was the the full floaters saved a lot of cranks when a rod let lose!
Bruce Lancaster
Member Emeritus
In the first decade or so of racing the US OHV V8's, rods became a big problem as rodders began to get high RPM's out of the new engines. Many engines were converted to early Ford rods and bearings, Chevies and Studebakers, and engines not compatible with Ford dimensions could get special full-float conversions from Moon...
The full floaters make rod failure much less likely. Later on the Modern rods began to appear with the necessary reliefs in bearing diameter at parting lines to alleviate the rod tossing problem, stock materials were improved, and the speed suppliers came up with stouter steel and aluminum rods for high revving engines...
With flatheads, 29A or 21A rods were preferred for racing...but why would anyone have converted the 8ba RODS to early bearings when the early rods were available and cheap new, used, or rebuilt??
The full floaters make rod failure much less likely. Later on the Modern rods began to appear with the necessary reliefs in bearing diameter at parting lines to alleviate the rod tossing problem, stock materials were improved, and the speed suppliers came up with stouter steel and aluminum rods for high revving engines...
With flatheads, 29A or 21A rods were preferred for racing...but why would anyone have converted the 8ba RODS to early bearings when the early rods were available and cheap new, used, or rebuilt??
georgewarren
Senior Member
My guess is that the builder was using a Merc crank and stock pistons, but wanted full floating bearings; this was around 1958 or so when I was 10 or 11 years old. I think the builder was a sailor on the USS Bushnell, so he had little money but access to a complete and modern machine shop on the Bushnell. (they could not only bore out an engine, but sleeve it, balance it, and chrome it!)
Bruce Lancaster
Member Emeritus
But fitting late rods to floaters takes a lot of metal out of the worst possible place, and regular '48 Ford rods made for this would be a drop in on a late crank...that was a normal mod for racing uses, to get the Merc crank for 4" or the mofified Merc for 4 1/8, requiring prewar rods, in order to upgrade from the insert rods.
ratamahata
Well-known member
Ok the measures was taken with a electronic caliper, please, don't guide for the picture caliper, The rods, small end 0.75', big end 2.3464 to 2.3622, the bearing tickness 0.1692' and the rods journal measures 2' aprox. taked with the old caliper, in the second pic you can see the bearing interior measure, I think is more than a 2' ...
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Bruce Lancaster
Member Emeritus
Numbers!! OK, stock 8BA rod big end is 2.2910...getting them out to 29A size (239 floater), spec is 2.3603, took out a bunch of metal! I did not think that was really possible...and why, with early rods available? But I would discard those as very suspect, and replace with either 8BA rods and locked bearings or 99A-29A rods with floating bearings.
ratamahata
Well-known member
OK Bruce many thanks for the info, Now I'm just in a battle with the studs, I have the removal tool, but I broke two studs at least, There are really stuck in the block, What do you think? There are another way to remove the studs, a trick? perhaps heating the bolt to dilate and then loosen....
Bruce Lancaster
Member Emeritus
If you can get hold of a stud tool that is a threaded collet gripping stud on center...
You will get LOTS of ideas on killing the broken ones...I personally would just start drilling, paying a lot of attention to starting on center...bigger and bigger drills, usually the thing has shaken loose by the time you are getting close to the threads.
You will get LOTS of ideas on killing the broken ones...I personally would just start drilling, paying a lot of attention to starting on center...bigger and bigger drills, usually the thing has shaken loose by the time you are getting close to the threads.
ratamahata
Well-known member
I posted a picture of my stud tool...
Ok so, with my removal tool, taking the studs in the bottom, I still think that the force exerted on it, twist it improperly, meaning that works poorly, perhaps there is another tool that can hold the studs in the center, without twisting and without breaking...
Ok so, with my removal tool, taking the studs in the bottom, I still think that the force exerted on it, twist it improperly, meaning that works poorly, perhaps there is another tool that can hold the studs in the center, without twisting and without breaking...
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Bruce Lancaster
Member Emeritus
That is indeed the worst kind; Ford engine book shows a collet type.
The type I refer to threads onto the top of a stud; the threaded part has lots and tightening a nut over that part compresses the threaded area, almost like a drill chuck, giving it tremendous grip. Snap-on makes a great one available in proper size for this. Don't know who else...and you are living in a more metrified part of the world, likely with few tool companies supplying anything in inches.
Another more common type comes close to centerd grip...it just has a hole that will take a range of stud sizes, and a wedge passing through sideways to grip. Fairly close to centered, and one made for metric market would work fine on American stud. Less grip than the collett type.
The type I refer to threads onto the top of a stud; the threaded part has lots and tightening a nut over that part compresses the threaded area, almost like a drill chuck, giving it tremendous grip. Snap-on makes a great one available in proper size for this. Don't know who else...and you are living in a more metrified part of the world, likely with few tool companies supplying anything in inches.
Another more common type comes close to centerd grip...it just has a hole that will take a range of stud sizes, and a wedge passing through sideways to grip. Fairly close to centered, and one made for metric market would work fine on American stud. Less grip than the collett type.