Mounting Rumble Seat Stops

[Brother Hesekiel]

My '31 Roadster is an old war horse. Apparently the body was once used on a Hot Rod (visible on the cutout for the rear end) and the roll pan is brazed (not welded) on, as were the old rumble seat stops that the previous owner cut when converting the car from rumble seat to trunk.

I have removed the old, cut, rumble stops and have a new set at hand. In order to mount everything correctly, I have 4 straight forward questions, if you don't mind:

1.
Where -- exactly -- are these mounts have to be mounted? I can see where "about" they would go: inner border of mount aligns "about" with the first ridge in the roll pan, but since I would like to do this right, why not doing it exactly as it should be done? Anybody has a reference measurement for me?

2.
Since there are the longer reinforcement brackets on the bottom (my car still has those welded/brazed in place), wouldn't these two brackets per side be above each other to be able to do the reinforcement job? And, if so, if I drill holes to mount the rumble seat brackets in the trunk, wouldn't these holes go through the lower brackets?

3. What kind of bolts do I need to mount the upper brackets (4 bolts x 2 brackets) correctly?

4.
What kind of bolts do I need to mount the rumble seat hinges (6 bolts times 2) to the deck lid?

Thanks, guys!

 

[Kevin in NJ]

You can not make your car work properly as it is currently not assembled properly.

The curved inner panel you have is an old repro that is incorrectly mounted. Plus it does not have any holes to allow the water to drain out.

That panel should be removed and brought up to mount on the top edge of the rumble seat riser as in the pictures on my website.

As your car is set up now the rumble stops will be a couple of inches below where they are supposed to mount and will not work properly if at all.

If you reference the article reprinted in the Technically Speaking you would find all the correct fasteners. The correct fasteners for the front edge of the curved inner panel would be oval head with square nuts and lock washers. The 8 screws for the rumble stop would be round head. The screws for the rumble hinges I believe should be oval head.

You rumble area was pieced together poorly with reproduction parts. The curved panel I know is the early (no longer produced) repro. The rumble seat risor is the old reproduction too. The 'triangle' bracket that the side of the curved panel attaches to is not a factory weld in place.
I mention all of these issues because you may have more fundamental problems of important part not in the right position. The lid may not work at all. You need to change how the curved inner panel is mounted and while you are at it make sure the rumble seat riser and side brackets are properly positioned. If the side brackets are not in the right position then you have no hope of getting the rumble lid to fit. There may be a reason why it is not currently a rumble seat, it may not work. As a trunk lid the hinges are in a safer place. You may put in the rumble hinges and the lid and find no hope in getting it to line up.

If you are going to stick with that curved inner panel then you need to drill some water drain holes. Factory panels have them, water will drain across this area.

I suggest you take a close look at the pictures Marco gave you and what I have on my website and understand what I was trying to convey you before you proceed. I think you have potential fundamental issues that may be show stoppers and you best proceed with caution.

 

[Brother Hesekiel]

Holy Sh*t, Kevin!

I had no idea!
Checked this thread and figured out how the curved panel is suppose to be mounted:

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72648

In contrast, here's how the curved panel is mounted on my car:

Looks like I will need to order a new roll pan, remove the old one preferably without damaging the paint on the rear panel, and then mount the new one correctly.

I'm learning something new every day here. Looks like the shop who restored this body wasn't really doing their homework. And I was wondering why they brazed this stuff in instead of welding it, or, in this case, bolting it in. Now I know.

 

[RHD]

Here is a pic of my original Roadster. Never been apart. Can supply measurements if reqd.

 

[Kevin in NJ]

Your roadster needs major work if you want to convert to a rumble lid.

Both the supports where the rumble lid mount are bent rear ward significantly. You have NO hope of putting a rumble lid on that car that way it is as the hinge point is moved rear ward.

You also need to change out the brace at the rear lower corner of the quarter as that has been destroyed.

Are you sure you want a rumble seat?

 

[Marco Tahtaras]

I posted this to your previous thread on the topic 10 days ago. I thought that would spell it out for you.

I hate to say it, but nothing I see there is original. It looks like a 1970's "build" and probably has the incorrect "replacement" curved panel but it would require better pics to tell for sure.

 

[Brother Hesekiel]

Thank you guys for your input.

While I now realize that the curved rear panel on my car is a poorly fit reproduction item that was mounted incorrectly, I have no doubt that my car was a rumble seat roadster when it was assembled and finally painted way back when. In fact, the pattern on the lower sides of the rumble lid as well as the hinges themselves indicate that the car was first painted with the rumble lid opened -- most likely to get paint to the edges and the inside that's not covered by the upholstery -- before the lid was closed and the entire car was painted.

I spoke to the previous owner who is a pretty well-off, long retired professional and fellow Model T owner, and he assured me that he himself purchased the car with the rumble seat in place and that he converted it to the trunk configuration because he needed a trunk for the tour he intended to do with this car. (Read the car's story in its Web page.) This guy is no bullsh*tter and he has no reason to tell me any nonsense.

http://www.californiaclassix.com/Bernard/A.html

I really want to test fit the rumble lid to see for myself if it makes sense to replace the rolled inner panel, but in order to do that, I need all the parts and the only parts needed to do this is the 6 x 2 screws that attach the hinges to the lid. If somebody could give me the correct length and thread, that would be wonderful!

RHD, I initially confused you with Les Pearson, whose book I have. Prima facie it looked like your bump stop brackets are riveted in place, but it's just the dust covering the bolts!

 

[Marco Tahtaras]

Kevin spotted several things I didn't focus on. Yep, there are issues that will likely cause serious grief. With that said I can understand your wanting to test the waters yourself.

If you have an original deck lid for a rumble seat it has #12-24 "D" nuts installed in each of the six holes on each side. These "D" nuts would be clinched in place like a rivet and hold a one-piece steel reinforcement/support bracket in place inside the inner skin. I'm 99% certain the oval head machine screws were 3/4" long.