More Vintique cra-

Frank The Plumber said:
Unfortunately Kube, you are not correct in that statement, if you were the whole topic would not even be up for discussion. What kind of soup today? Chicken!! What if I don't like chicken? GET OUT!! NO SOUP FOR YOU, GET OUT OR ELSE!!! NO SOUP FOR YOU!!!! All you need is 50.00000001% for, to win. 49.99999999%,against, NO SOUP FOR YOU!!!!
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Respectfully I must ask how you figure I am wrong.
If Drake (example) gives the company in China a drawing and says "make it within these tolerances" they have one of two choices. One, make it within those tolerances or two - don't.
If they do and the part is crap, that means Drake designed it to be crap. If they don't make it within tolerances supplied by Drake and his company buys them anyway, then shame on Drake for knowingly buying crap and reselling it.
Sorry, I was too long in the business of producing parts for the US government as well as many top automotive companies. We stuck to the tolerances allowed so as to have our parts accepted by the purchaser. We were not allowed to ship parts that fell outside the specifications provided. Two reasons for that. One, too much pride in what we produced. And two, we provided the company with what they paid for.
Now, some of the automotive companies we dealt with had much looser tolerances for similar parts than their competitors. Those companies did this so as to get the parts cheaper. It is in reality much cheaper to produce a part with a wide tolerance band than that with a narrow tolerance band.
We've all heard about $200 hammers for the US Army. Not too far fetched if you'd see the drawings!

Nope, it all comes down to what the buyer demands. If it's crap (outside tolerances), the buyer can walk away from the deal. If it's crap and within tolerance then shame on the buyer.
 
A fellow I know who has things made in China and has visited several "casting plants" there told me there was no such thing as 'seconds' in china. It all goes to market.
 
Have to admit that I am grateful for the fellows that make,import and sell these parts. We'd have a terrible time without them.I'm just old and grouchy.
 
If there is a batch of 100 units of part X, a demand of 500 units for part X, a customer base of 20% that would buy part X, even though it is not correct, part X is still sold and considered a success. Given the economics of that scenario, there is no incentive to correct the situation. You may not want to wear split pants, if all that is available is split pants, you either wear them or go pantless. I should not say that you are wrong, I should say that unfortunately supply and demand economics do not favor perfection. Society can be swayed towards a compromise if a discount is offered. There will always be the guy who will eat the burger that fell on the floor for 50% off, his perspective is, what a deal.
 
If you want to see some real cr*p maybe you should see what we had to deal with in the 60's and 70's. Everything came from Argentina. The rubber lasted about 6 months, anything chrome rusted in less than a year and if a dog peed on your Argentine hub cap it rusted immediately. I'll take the Drake,Carpenter,Vintique stuff any day over what we used to get for repo parts. We don't live in a perfect world. I buy my parts based on past experience and each supplier has some great, good, and some marginal parts. If the world was perfect we might even be able to fix Washington!
 
Frank The Plumber said:
If there is a batch of 100 units of part X, a demand of 500 units for part X, a customer base of 20% that would buy part X, even though it is not correct, part X is still sold and considered a success. Given the economics of that scenario, there is no incentive to correct the situation. You may not want to wear split pants, if all that is available is split pants, you either wear them or go pantless. I should not say that you are wrong, I should say that unfortunately supply and demand economics do not favor perfection. Society can be swayed towards a compromise if a discount is offered. There will always be the guy who will eat the burger that fell on the floor for 50% off, his perspective is, what a deal.
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Now Frank, this I agree with. I think you and I are nearly on the same page, just maybe a different way of wording our opinions.
It does come down to what the buyer demands in quality. Subsequently and ultimately it goes down to what the (end purchaser) will accept. Unfortunately it has become quite apparent that many (most?) folks either don't know or don't care about quality as long as the price is right (cheap).
Unfortunately, that shows up in nearly all segments of our society these days.
I guess I am from the days when pride of workmanship and ownership (of quality) mattered more so than 'cheap'.
Respectfully,
Mike
 
We are on the same page, my old dad screams at me for buying $45 wiper blades, comments every time he rides with me how great my wipers work, ******* every time he uses his $7 ones that he has to change cause they fall apart. I put a set of the nice ones I use on his ride for his birthday one year, he looked at me like I had cut the cheese, he drove around looking at his new wipers that way and sure enough he had a $7 set back there the next time. He is as confused as to what I do as I am to him doing what he does.
 
uncle buck said:
I hate to break the news to you , but Drake is a major manufacturer in our hobby. Yes they are also a major retailer of other manufacturers parts too, so you are partly correct. One of the biggest problems I see is our standards are much higher today than Fords standards were when our cars / trucks were originally made. What amazes me though is ,with technoligy that is 75 years more advanced, why can't we get a better product? I am glad we at least have these people making stuff for us. This is a free country and the businesses are in it for profit and desere to make a return on there investments that are worthwhile and if anybody here can do a better job I am all for it, but my experience tells me that we will just continue to ***** and make no attempt to make any better products.
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Drake: For years I would agree that they are usually the "Out of Stock House". Well, many times they are, but this past year I've bought quite a few items from them. Their 38 Ford running boards are as perfect as you can get. These are the vulcanized rubber versions. When we put them on my 38 for a trial fit, even the bolt holes lined up, ALL OF THEM. Yes I was expecting to have to ratfile them, like we use to do with originals. Was I disappointed that they are made in China? Yes, but they got these right.

I've bought alot of other smaller items from Drake this year too, and have to say that for me, at least, they have their act together. I've dealt with Dennis Carpenter (window kits), bought one of their glove boxes and had to go to Drake to get one that had quality, but all in all, I've been pretty satisfied with them. Julianos? Nice stuff, but pricey. Haven't we hear the phrase, you do in the end, get what you pay for. I'm as conservative as you can get (cheap) but with this project, I've learned it's better to spend more and get better. Oh yes, speaking about wiper blades, I got a set from Drakes, and was also, very satisfied. They were just what I was looking for.

Could Drake improve? Yes, their high and mighty attitude does get to you, but..........
 
Who, of you have tried to reproduce any of these old Ford parts yourself? It's not easy to satisfy everyones expectations of what the part should be in the finished product. Try doing something about the problems that you preserve is defective and make a difference in the hobby. It's far easier to sit at the keyboard and sound like the engineering department or quality control. Just my feelings.
Chet/Ma.
 
Chet/Ma. said:
Who of you has tried to reproduce any of these old Ford parts yourself? It's not easy to satisfy everyone's expectations of what the part should be in the finished product. Try doing something about the problems that you perceive to be defective and make a difference in the hobby. It's far easier to sit at the keyboard and sound like the engineering department or quality control. Just my feelings...
Chet/Ma.
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You my friend have missed the point entirely.
This has nothing to do with what these guys sell to the public. It has everything to do with what they advertise it to be.
If it'll fit and function, tell us so. If it is exactly as original, tell us so. I am just plain tired of the "exactly as original" only to find it doesn't fit, has the incorrect markings, etc. and no doubt has DRAKE stamped in it. Last I checked, Drake was never stamped in 'exactly as original' parts.
Bottom subject matter line is called ethics. Tell us what you are TRULY selling. I don't care if it's the best or only one reproduced. I do care about what I am buying. Be honest in the description so I can make an informed decision.
 
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Do you guys remember that Carpenters use to send a quality questionnaire with the parts? You actually mailed it to Ford. Was this only for the parts that were Ford Script?
I agree with Kube False advertising is no good.I love these 40's but I am so glad and thankful I am not restoring in these times.
As I said before manufacturing anything for a profit is almost impossible these days.However We should receive what we pay for.
We have to deal with the problems if we are going to work on these type cars.

Travis
 
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