More techno info from Canada

Brian

Brian

Well-known member
My mate in Canada is right into achieving maximum performance from his flatmotor. See the earlier thread about crab distributor advance. Anyway, this stuff is wayyy beyond me, but I post it here for you experts, enjoy;
Hi Brian,

I came across the inventor of the capacitive discharge ignition, a Canadian RCAF pilot in 1963 and his Hyland electronics company in Ottawa. His son, Fred Winterburn, now makes limited quantities of these original units. 6V and 12V. Truly pioneering work here, and I’ve ordered a unit for my flathead. That, together with new Taylor copper core ignition wires and a Holley fuel pressure regulator and new Stromberg progressive linkage kit, will at least enable proper and consistent dynamometer testing to the maximum capabilities of my engine beyond the 180 hp, and to 6000 rpm.

Here is his website:
http://www.capacitordischargeignition.com/

There is even a Wikipedia entry for his invention!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_discharge_ignition

and his father’s original patent, which was stolen by American companies without paying royalties, and those units did not work properly because they failed to understand the multiphase spark concept and spark duration for more energy (the secret is in the arrangement of the power supply diodes D2 and D4 continuing the sparking after the SCR (13) fires the 400 volt charged capacitor C4 into the ignition coil):


This Canadian unit is definitely appropriate for flathead engines!! Super reliability in the design, none have ever failed.

I think you will find the following pro vs cons table VERY interesting!
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/ignition/pdf/winterburn_vs_kettering.pdf
 
8389CD7DC91F45F7BA31B4DAE4B0E604.jpgthe diagram;
 
The above diagram/drawing was originally imbedded in the first post, but didn't go through. Man, I have trouble attaching photos etc to threads on this site. But, I don't understand what I'm posting either!!
 
I assume your use of the term 'flatmotor' actually means a flathead Ford V8. Flatmotor is actually a term describing the Volkswagen or Ferrari engines which have cylinders 180 apart making for a 'flat' or boxer motor.

Also, my patent was stolen is often asserted by a weak 'original' patent holder. As a holder of a electrical patent myself, I can tell you the patent attorneys often, as in the case above, includes non-pertinent trivia which unfortunately allows the patent to be broken easily but does increase the attorney fees. Admittedly, I haven't read the entire patent, but using an SCR itself is poor as it's function is easily duplicated with other devices and methods to discharge the capacitor, thus bypassinging the original patent. We know that Wikileaks is not authoritative source as any 8 year old kid can modify or edit any article. That said, don't want to be a downer but just add some background. I do badly want to know and have asked in other threads with no answer provided -

Under what circumstances does an electronic ignition improve performance over a points (Kettering) ignition. It certainly doesn't add short term reliability. How can the performance of a stock flathead be improved? ?? Can someone speak this improvement of the performance of a stock engine vs a competition engine - i.e. unless compression is raised etc etc? no anecdotal stories please.
 
Anyone remember 'Heathkit'?
Put together one of their CD ignition kits back in 1973 for use on my '73 351CJ powered Ranchero. Other than less point and plug degradation, there was not any other advantage that I could measure.
 
I wouldn't trust anything automotive that is made in Canada. Go for the MSD 6, a proven reliable unit which is fully backed by the company.
 
Would the 6 volt version of the Hyland CDI unit work OK with the original 1932 - 48 Ford V8 ignition coils which are rated at 4.5 volts. If so then would the original coil resistor still be required in series with the Ford coil ? My thoughts are that it would be OK, but not sure. Regards, Kevin.
 
Sadly, Improving the volume and intensity of the spark, does little to improve upon the performance and economy of a stock ignition in proper working order. However, controlling the timing of the ignition under all operating conditions does. There are some new electronic ignition systems that do that, unfortunately they need programing and are expensive.
 
My old 64 T-bird had a transistorized ignition system. It still had points to trigger the timing function but used the transistor to do the actual switching. Worked great until the transistor gave out. I put it back to a standard points ignition set up and no more problems.

I remember using the big Lucas 2MC battery eliminator capacitors on the old brit bikes. Sparxs makes one like it now. They just wire the big cap in place of the battery to the alternator. You had to start with the lights off but once it was running you can turn them back on.

We also use capacitive discharge systems for anti collision light strobes. If you grab a lead on that cap after its charged it will cure your manic depression for sure. You might be in a coma for a while though.
 
koates said:
Would the 6 volt version of the Hyland CDI unit work OK with the original 1932 - 48 Ford V8 ignition coils which are rated at 4.5 volts. If so then would the original coil resistor still be required in series with the Ford coil ? My thoughts are that it would be OK, but not sure. Regards, Kevin.
Click to expand...

No, the original coil resistor, or condenser for that matter are not required. However, since the Winterburn ignition box includes a switch for choosing between Kettering and CD systems instantly, you should keep these components connected for the sake of keeping the Kettering system operational. They in no way affect the CD operation mode. In fact, the Winterburn provides the same energy spark with battery (cranking) voltage as low as 3.5 volts. I am the Canadian that has ordered this unit for my 180 h.p. 276 flathead motor.
 
RalphG said:
Yes, and how about all those Windsor, Ontario, Canada built Ford, Meteor, Mercury and Monarch cars and trucks (several of which I own.)?
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Merc July 17 colour small.jpg (82.7 KB, 2 views)

That's a beautiful picture of a beautiful car!
 
hotrodcbx said:
I wouldn't trust anything automotive that is made in Canada. Go for the MSD 6, a proven reliable unit which is fully backed by the company.
Click to expand...

Now that is an off-the-wall comment! At least with the early Fords, I have found some of the iron castings made in Canada to be better in terms of freedom from cracks and breakage than their U.S made counterparts.
 
hotrodcbx said:
I wouldn't trust anything automotive that is made in Canada. Go for the MSD 6, a proven reliable unit which is fully backed by the company.
Click to expand...

Stupid comment ...... Ford has plants in Canada.. Windsor Ontario to name one and I like my factory alloy inlet manifold for my C59A engine that was not available factory in the US for that year.

GB
 
I think folks get too wound up worrying about where stuff is made. If it is good quality, reliable, and doesn't break your nest egg then who cares where it's made.

Folks shouldn't poo-poo a product unless they can back up a claim of defect. All the stuff I've ever purchased that was made in Canada was good quality, reliable, and didn't hurt my wallet any more than stuff made in the US.
 
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