More on timing

captndan

captndan

Well-known member
I have a sort of fresh touring engine. I cannot find the timing dimple on the gear. Tried several revolutions. Tried a drill bit instead of the timing pin. Each time I think I feel something I measure the piston depth and the pistons are not where they should be. So I'm guessing there is no dimple. What now? Can the timing gear cover be removed without pulling the. Radiator?
 
Yes the timing cover can be removed with radiator in. Les Andrews book explains how. It is tight. I have heard of guys that have changed out a timing gear on the side of the road on a tour!
I have used a wood dowel, rotate until #1 is up and on compression not 180 out. You then can paint a mark on the pulley and time with a timing light.
 
It's there, keep looking.
Pull all plugs, turn engine by hand slowly.

"Sort of fresh touring engine" what does this mean? What work was done, who did the work? Was beer involved?
 
There are a couple different ways that should find it.

Determine which timing cover you have. If the pin is located in a small round cast boss, you have an A cover. If the pin is in an oval boss with the pin hole in the lower/bottom portion you have an A cover. If the pin hole in the upper portion of the oval boss you have a B cover.


Remove all sparklers to help make engine rotate easier. Bring #1 piston up close to TDC on compression stroke, a flashlight with mirror may help locate the cam gear dimple, or, a small drill bit or ice pick etc.

Most engines are loose enough to allow grabbing the belt and turning the engine, I don't recommend grabbing the fan.

Removal of the gear side cover may allow you to see the dimple without having to remove the whole cover.

The dimple is there somewhere, they can be tough to find though.
 
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I did as tbirdtbird only mine was so subtle i could not feel it but with a good light & a mirror I was able to see it. Good luck !!
 
If the engine is running OK, your timing should be close. So remove your dist. cap and spark plugs and turn the engine by hand until you see the rotor approaching #1 in the cap. Use a short phillips screw driver and hold it in the timing hole as you slowly hand crank the engine, bringing the rotor closer to #1. Repeat until you feel it, which you will with patience. I use the phillips because it is easy to hold and pointed enough to find even a faint indent. When you find it, use a drill bit and enlarge the indent by twisting the bit with your fingers (not an electric drill!).
 
FWIW: Very similar to most of the above very helpful suggestions; just one (1) vintage Forum method suggested years ago for finding a difficult timing gear depression:

1. Remove (4) plugs so engine turns freely without compression.

2. Notice that piston No. 1, (nearest radiator), rises to the very top as the engine is turned with the crank.

3. One time, when no. 1 piston is at top, one will NOT "feel" the timing gear depression; however, the very next time, when the no. 1 piston is at the top, one should "feel" the timing gear depression.

4. On a very shallow and difficult timing gear depression try this old vintage trick.

A. Take your timing pin out, and sharpen the round point until it looks more like a sharpened pencil with a dull point; and then insert pin and press inwards with a constant pressure while the engine is turned very slowly, "especially" as the no. 1 piston is approaching the top; i.e., top dead center, (TDC).

B. If timing gear depression is not found, time to remove the timing cover for further investigation.

C. For original looks, buy a new timing pin ...... keep the sharpen one for a spare for when you loose the original one.
 
I found the mark! I had to pull the timing cover and look real hard. It was filled with gasket cement! Now cleaned out and painted red.
 
Hi captndan,

Thanks for sharing your finding the cause of your timing gear recess problem ...... it will no doubt be appreciated after assisting some future Model A owner searching for a similar concern ......
 
I don't know if this old flathead trick works on the "A's".
Remove #1 plug, rotate engine while holding a finger tightly over the #1 hole. You should get a puff of air when the piston is rising to the top on compression stroke.
Glad you got it figured out.
 
Hi chap52,

Good point. Works on A's, B's, etc..

For timing ....... the No. 1 piston comes up twice when the engine is rotated ....... i. e., once where timing pin slips in timing gear ........ and one can feel a puff of air over spark plug hole No. 1 .......... and once where the timing pin does NOT slip in ...... and one does not feel this puff of air over spark plug holes No. 1.

Maybe someone could write a Two-Step Song: "The Pin Slips In ..... Only When No. 1 Puffs."
 
Also FWIW:

Per no. reply No. 12 above, for timing vintage magnetos and vintage distributors, many vintage tractors had a steel pointer mounted on the engine pointing to a vee groove mark on the crankshaft pulley for marking TDC.

Because the crankshaft rotates 360 degrees twice for the timing gear's single rotation, one had to insure that the correct timing mark was accompanied with the No. 1 spark plug hole "Puff" and not the one with no "Puff".

If one relies on timing a Model A or a Model B engine solely with a mark on the crankshaft pulley, (as opposed to the timing gear pin slipping in a timing gear recess), the correct TDC timing mark is again the one accompanied with the No. 1 spark plug hole "Puff" ...... which incidentally verifies the Compression Stroke where both valves are seated and closed.

CAUTION: In this engine "crankshaft" TDC timing scenario, "No Puff" translates into "No Run".
 
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captndan said:
I found the mark! I had to pull the timing cover and look real hard. It was filled with gasket cement! Now cleaned out and painted red.
Click to expand...



So that that answered my last question asked (see post 5)

Now you need to ask "Where's the rest of the sealant?"

Didn't someone just post a picture of a sealant mess on a head and block.
 
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