Modern Ignition System Problem
- Thread starter Denali
- Start date
Most likely it is a BEAN COUNTER thing...
It might cost 25 cents more per unit to have the "burnout proof" feature built into the unit!
It all started in the early 90's when Colleges introduced the MBA degree.
MBA = Masters in Bean Accounting.
That is when American Manufacturing Business started the classic slide into the toilet that it is in now!
At least that is what I saw with the Computer business.
It might cost 25 cents more per unit to have the "burnout proof" feature built into the unit!
It all started in the early 90's when Colleges introduced the MBA degree.
MBA = Masters in Bean Accounting.
That is when American Manufacturing Business started the classic slide into the toilet that it is in now!
At least that is what I saw with the Computer business.
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I spoke to one of the modern ignition companies and I was told that that is a precaution only and that it could last a lot longer than 30 seconds (as in hrs). I've left mine on for minutes after forgetting and no issues. I don't like the dedicated wire to the battery that essentially negates my fuse on the starter.
katy
Well-known member
Ditto
Synchro909
Well-known member
Spot on, Benson. Accountants have a lot to account for. Huh? Wait a moment!
Jack Shaft
BANNED
Clear voltage signal and proper grounding is critical to avoid issues that burn modules. That is why they want it wired directly to the battery for instance,they dont trust the system in the car..especially after years of service where 'restorers' modify things.Could the module be more robust? perhaps..
Chuck Sea/Tac
Well-known member
How long has this ignition been installed, and working? I would be looking for bad corroded connections, and ground path continuity.
By corroded, I don’t mean necessarily visible the connection needs to be checked with an ohmmeter or a voltmeter with voltage to verify you’re getting a good connection.
By corroded, I don’t mean necessarily visible the connection needs to be checked with an ohmmeter or a voltmeter with voltage to verify you’re getting a good connection.
Does anyone know how this issue is dealt with in a modern car? Could it be that there are numerous safeguards (read as multiple other electronic gadgets or computer) that would add significantly to cost, if they could even be used in the otherwise simple (even archaic) Model A system?
The option is to stick with points and condensers as originally supplied and appreciate the design for what it is. They have worked for 90 years under more harsh everyday conditions than most of us put our Model A through today.
Still another thing to do would be to call the manufacturer/distributor of the electronic unit and ask why the product is not more "fool proof". Reminders such as "Don't leave the key on" are not always written as disclaimers to shirk liability. It can be interesting to find out just how helpful some of these folks can be since they have a closer knowledge of their product than their customers might have.
Good luck. Bob Bader
The option is to stick with points and condensers as originally supplied and appreciate the design for what it is. They have worked for 90 years under more harsh everyday conditions than most of us put our Model A through today.
Still another thing to do would be to call the manufacturer/distributor of the electronic unit and ask why the product is not more "fool proof". Reminders such as "Don't leave the key on" are not always written as disclaimers to shirk liability. It can be interesting to find out just how helpful some of these folks can be since they have a closer knowledge of their product than their customers might have.
Good luck. Bob Bader
Y-Blockhead
Well-known member
I don't understand why the Pertronix Ignitor I still burn out. Pertronix has the technology. The Pertronix Igniter II and Ignitor III have the NEW failsafe circuit preventing damage when a careless person leaves the key on for an extended time.
I have an Ignitor III in my '55 Ranchwagon and have never had a problem. It works great, has multible discharge and an adjustable Rev limiter.
I still have points in my Town Sedan because I don't trust the Ignitor I.
I have an Ignitor III in my '55 Ranchwagon and have never had a problem. It works great, has multible discharge and an adjustable Rev limiter.
I still have points in my Town Sedan because I don't trust the Ignitor I.
Bill G
Well-known member
That's one reason I stayed with points and condenser. People I know have spent a lot of $$ on burned out modules. I agree, however, that it is point-less (pun intended) to design something with such a basic flaw in it that it cant take full current for any length of time. All of us have left the key on from time to time.
Oh, and by the way, I happen to be a bean counter (Accountant) I don't count beans for any manufacturing firms. I also gave up on tracking all that I spent on the Model A. Now I just grin, look the other way and continue to buy Model A stuff.
Oh, and by the way, I happen to be a bean counter (Accountant) I don't count beans for any manufacturing firms. I also gave up on tracking all that I spent on the Model A. Now I just grin, look the other way and continue to buy Model A stuff.
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Here is something that I learned 55 years ago while fixing IBM machines in Vietnam.
"There is more to troubleshooting than replacing parts."
"Newer" cars can have problems with electronic ignitions also.
My brother had a '90s Chevy Suburban for years.
The HEI modules in the distributor started to repeatedly burn out.
Every 5, 50, 75 or 100 miles sometimes as long as 1500 miles.
Numerous GM dealers and none dealer shops tried to fix it and could not find the problem.
These guys replaced the HEI modules ... but never fixed the problem!
One day i suggested something to try which I had seen on Model As, which had not been tried after John mentioned some previous work that had been done on the Suburban.
The transfer case had been rebuilt just before all of this started...
There were several ground cables from the upper part of the transmission / transfer case to the body which had not been re installed.
They installed the braided ground cables and this fixed the problem for good.
"There is more to troubleshooting than replacing parts."
"Newer" cars can have problems with electronic ignitions also.
My brother had a '90s Chevy Suburban for years.
The HEI modules in the distributor started to repeatedly burn out.
Every 5, 50, 75 or 100 miles sometimes as long as 1500 miles.
Numerous GM dealers and none dealer shops tried to fix it and could not find the problem.
These guys replaced the HEI modules ... but never fixed the problem!
One day i suggested something to try which I had seen on Model As, which had not been tried after John mentioned some previous work that had been done on the Suburban.
The transfer case had been rebuilt just before all of this started...
There were several ground cables from the upper part of the transmission / transfer case to the body which had not been re installed.
They installed the braided ground cables and this fixed the problem for good.
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Jordan
Well-known member
This is so your ignition is on it's own circuit and doesn't have other electronics to disturb it. You should have a fuse coming off the battery as well. Trust me when I say you don't want it coming off your starter's fuse.
nkaminar
Well-known member
I am no electronic genus, just a gear head, but what about adding a buzzer that comes on with the ignition switch to remind the driver that it is on. I wonder it there is a buzzer that would go off when the car was running. Perhaps one triggered by voltage. Is the voltage at the module different when the engine is running? It has to be or the module would burn out while the engine was running.
My modern car beeps at me if anything is not right, like the door open or my seat belt unfastened or my fly unzipped.
My modern car beeps at me if anything is not right, like the door open or my seat belt unfastened or my fly unzipped.
The ignition system was brand new, properly installed. The car ran like a top only once. The next day I went to start it and it wouldn't even fire. I tried everything I could but still nothing. So I got frustrated and removed the system and shipped it back to FS Ignition in Oklahoma and told them what they could do with it! I'm done with them!!!!
CWPASADENA
Well-known member
Electronic ignition works very well however, I use my car for touring and want reliability and ease of diagnosis should a problem crop up. After many thousands of miles on tours, I have never had an ignition problem but I have spent a lot of time on the side of the road trying to help others diagnose a problem with their electronic ignition.
I strongly recommend anyone who is using electronic ignition in their Model A to also carry with them a conventional distributor that is already set up and timed to their engine so the distributor can easily be changed on the side of the road and they can get on their way.
Again, this is just my opinion.
Chris W.
I strongly recommend anyone who is using electronic ignition in their Model A to also carry with them a conventional distributor that is already set up and timed to their engine so the distributor can easily be changed on the side of the road and they can get on their way.
Again, this is just my opinion.
Chris W.
700rpm
Well-known member
You don’t say you have a modern ignition installed in your Model A, but if you do, I think it’s fair to ask “Why would someone install a modern ignition in a 92-year old vehicle?" We are in and of the 21st c., but our cars are in the 21st c and of the early 20th c. I don’t expect 2021 technology to work for 1928 mechanics any more than 1928 mechanics working on my new Honda.
Gene F
Well-known member
I have the 1957 style points. The reason I don't have the electronic kit (name mentioned above, but I sure won't use it) is because I have heard a lot of "it doesn't work", or "it doesn't last". I drive my car, so I hate road-side repairs.
To top it off, I hear if you try to exercise warranty they simply say "no, you burnt it up", meaning you did something wrong. Basically buyer assumes all risks, even product engineering and/or quality issues.
Hey, but the electronic unit or not, we all are free to make our own choices. To me changing points every few years is not that big of a deal. I put a little dab of dilectric grease on the point block cam ever spring.
To top it off, I hear if you try to exercise warranty they simply say "no, you burnt it up", meaning you did something wrong. Basically buyer assumes all risks, even product engineering and/or quality issues.
Hey, but the electronic unit or not, we all are free to make our own choices. To me changing points every few years is not that big of a deal. I put a little dab of dilectric grease on the point block cam ever spring.