I picked up a model B motor from a fellow ford barner. I am planning on installing it in my 29 roadster. I have heard that I need to modify the B oil pan to fit the model A flywheel housing. I tried to use the search function but couldn't find anything. Can anyone tell me what the best way to modify the oil pan is ? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Model B oil pan modification
- Thread starter ralphie9n
- Start date
Chris Haynes
Well-known member
Remove the flywheel cover and all should be well.
Roadster62
Well-known member
Saws-All is your friend, just cut the back section off. Bob
BRENT in 10-uh-C
Well-known member
Why don't you ask around (advertise) to see if anyone already has one modified to fit. The trend over the last decade is to get away from 'B' installations in Model-A's and use 'A' engines instead. Likely someone has a 'B' pan setting on a shelf.
Jim Brierley
Well-known member
the rear section can be removed by cutting or grinding off the spot-welds. this looks cleaner than cutting it off. you can use an A pan by enlarging the radius around the rear main. use ARP 12-point nuts so the rods will clear the pan, otherwise the A pan must be dimpled to clear.
Charlie Stephens
Well-known member
I just left a small strip from the original B pan when I modified it to use on my Model A. I decided I didn't want to risk a leak in the pan when I ground the spot welds off. I like the idea of looking for a pan that has already been cut. Not many people look under my car where they would see it.
Charlie Stephens
Charlie Stephens
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hardtimes
Well-known member
Hey ralphie,
Be nice is we had general info on where you live. LOTS of members here to help..maybe with a pan that , like said, already to use for you
. I have several real good A stock pans with trays. Also , one B already cut / dimpled as indicated by Jim B. ...or use twelve point chev nuts.
hardtimes
Well-known member
Well, see knowing location helps, as 62 Pan is in Pennsylvania and has a modified B ! Ah, life is good when you have Barn full of friends,eh
!Marshall V. Daut
Well-known member
"Trend to get away from B engine installation in model A . Why? "
#1 reason is because "B" blocks crack so easily, mostly in the exhaust valve area, although one I owned actually developed a four-inch crack over the center main saddle! $$$$$$$$$$ Model B blocks were weak from the git-go and have only gotten worse with time and use. Model A and B blocks may weigh close to the same, but the B block got heavier and beefier at the bottom end to accommodate the bigger crankshaft, sacrificing strength up top. I'll NEVER run another B block as long as I live from too much expensive and frustrating experience with three B blocks that always needed to be repaired. Why not use the good parts from a B engine (crankshaft with counterweights, connecting rods, camshaft, flywheel, MAYBE the cylinder head [although more efficient heads are now available], intake manifold and carb) to achieve more horsepower, smoothness and reliability by putting them in a much tougher Model A block? I, for one, am glad to see the Model B engine craze dying out, if that is what's happening. This craze began to become an obsession in the 1970's in the Model A community, mostly in California. Model B this and Model B that was THE way to go for the touring crowd. People have since learned through hard and expensive experience that a Model B engine ain't all that great. Those of you who have uncracked Model B engines should thank your lucky stars. You are among the very few, who have not suffered the inevitable Crack City syndrome - yet. Your time is coming. Aftermarket diamond block Model B engines are better than their factory predecessors, but even they can develop cracks. Why take a chance?
#2 reason may be that our Model A's are more authentic and presumably worth more money if the correct engine is in place. The external differences between the two engines are slight, but still detectable, mainly by the fuel pump boss and lack of Model A engine stamp numbers on the pad beneath the cylinder head. The cylinder head differences are another give-away. If I were to spend $35,000+ on a Deluxe Phaeton or A-400, I'd darned sure want the correct Model A engine to be present, preferably the one that came with it from the factory. That filters down to the more common and less expensive Model A body styles, too. Having the correct Model A engine in your car instead of a Model B eliminates one possible ding to be leveraged by potential buyers to knock down the price, now or down the road when our heirs go to sell these cars.
There may be a #3 reason, but the first two should more than explain the trend away from using Model B engines in our Model A's. Keep the internal goodies from a B block for adaption into a Model A block, but save yourself time, money and frustration by using that factory B block as the proverbial boat anchor or shop door stop. Compromising the Model B block was NOT one of Ford's better ideas by a long shot!
Marshall
#1 reason is because "B" blocks crack so easily, mostly in the exhaust valve area, although one I owned actually developed a four-inch crack over the center main saddle! $$$$$$$$$$ Model B blocks were weak from the git-go and have only gotten worse with time and use. Model A and B blocks may weigh close to the same, but the B block got heavier and beefier at the bottom end to accommodate the bigger crankshaft, sacrificing strength up top. I'll NEVER run another B block as long as I live from too much expensive and frustrating experience with three B blocks that always needed to be repaired. Why not use the good parts from a B engine (crankshaft with counterweights, connecting rods, camshaft, flywheel, MAYBE the cylinder head [although more efficient heads are now available], intake manifold and carb) to achieve more horsepower, smoothness and reliability by putting them in a much tougher Model A block? I, for one, am glad to see the Model B engine craze dying out, if that is what's happening. This craze began to become an obsession in the 1970's in the Model A community, mostly in California. Model B this and Model B that was THE way to go for the touring crowd. People have since learned through hard and expensive experience that a Model B engine ain't all that great. Those of you who have uncracked Model B engines should thank your lucky stars. You are among the very few, who have not suffered the inevitable Crack City syndrome - yet. Your time is coming. Aftermarket diamond block Model B engines are better than their factory predecessors, but even they can develop cracks. Why take a chance?
#2 reason may be that our Model A's are more authentic and presumably worth more money if the correct engine is in place. The external differences between the two engines are slight, but still detectable, mainly by the fuel pump boss and lack of Model A engine stamp numbers on the pad beneath the cylinder head. The cylinder head differences are another give-away. If I were to spend $35,000+ on a Deluxe Phaeton or A-400, I'd darned sure want the correct Model A engine to be present, preferably the one that came with it from the factory. That filters down to the more common and less expensive Model A body styles, too. Having the correct Model A engine in your car instead of a Model B eliminates one possible ding to be leveraged by potential buyers to knock down the price, now or down the road when our heirs go to sell these cars.
There may be a #3 reason, but the first two should more than explain the trend away from using Model B engines in our Model A's. Keep the internal goodies from a B block for adaption into a Model A block, but save yourself time, money and frustration by using that factory B block as the proverbial boat anchor or shop door stop. Compromising the Model B block was NOT one of Ford's better ideas by a long shot!
Marshall
BRENT in 10-uh-C
Well-known member
Jim Brierley
Well-known member
there's 2 sides to every story. I've run B blocks for over 50 years with good results, including runs of over 160 mph on the Bonneville salt flats.
Chris Haynes
Well-known member
I guess I didn't make myself clear in the above post. So here it is in a new form. Remove the flywheel cover from the B oil pan and all should be well.
Marshall V. Daut
Well-known member
Yes, Jim Brierley, it was you specifically I had in mind when I mentioned the fortunate few I know who have had good luck with B blocks. I remember us discussing this very issue at a past Picacho Peak Hillclimb event. You are at one end of the spectrum of satisfied B block owners, while I and probably the majority of past B block victims are at the other end. I never met a B block I liked, or one that liked me. Even a low mileage B block I acquired with less than 20,000 miles on it developed that four-inch crack above the middle bearing saddle I alluded to in my previous post. It cost me $800 at a diesel engine repair shop to get repaired 15 years ago. Yikes!!! What's a guy gotta do just to get a B block that isn't, or won't, eventually crack??? Nothing but bad, BAD experiences on my part with those crack-prone blocks. Some of yours surely must have been the slightly better diamond blocks? If they were all factory B blocks that didn't crack, you are indeed watched over by the angels.
I recently got back an acquaintance's rebuilt B diamond block from a well-known and highly respected Midwest engine builder, who essentially told me to please not bring him any more B blocks for rebuilding. He hates them, too. He was barely able - with the grace of the heavens and decades of experience - to save this particular B block despite its many problems. It is a diamond B block, otherwise he said he wouldn't have touched it.
I envy you, Jim, for your continued good fortune with B blocks, something that has eluded me. That's your 100% positive experience with them. Mine has been 100% negative, so I gotta go with those experiences and advise people to learn from my misfortune and lost dollars buying and repairing them. Here's hoping your luck holds out - at 160mph. I'd settle for no cracks just driving to McDonald's and back.
I hope you're feeling better these days? Don't scare us with those health issues again!
Marshall, sadder, but no wiser
I recently got back an acquaintance's rebuilt B diamond block from a well-known and highly respected Midwest engine builder, who essentially told me to please not bring him any more B blocks for rebuilding. He hates them, too. He was barely able - with the grace of the heavens and decades of experience - to save this particular B block despite its many problems. It is a diamond B block, otherwise he said he wouldn't have touched it.
I envy you, Jim, for your continued good fortune with B blocks, something that has eluded me. That's your 100% positive experience with them. Mine has been 100% negative, so I gotta go with those experiences and advise people to learn from my misfortune and lost dollars buying and repairing them. Here's hoping your luck holds out - at 160mph. I'd settle for no cracks just driving to McDonald's and back.
I hope you're feeling better these days? Don't scare us with those health issues again!
Marshall, sadder, but no wiser
hardtimes
Well-known member
X-2
! Er, ah...but not the 160mph thing
!!!The 'things' stated and the way stated are unpersuasive and in some areas, not logical ! For example...'keep A stock , with A engine...then put B head and internals /whatever on/in A block'. Like putting oil pressure system in an A block to try copying B block system that Ford put in. How is that keeping it stock ? Like 'restoring' an A with dozens of mods ..even hidden from judges, of course. Like curising down the freeway at 65 with Mitchell etc,etc...
We can agree that some of us have negative experiences with some things mechanical, and some have great experiences with same things mechanical. To each his own and thank goodness for differences !
HEY TOD...where are you ?? Save us B block condemned few with promised land five main five bearing cam , crack free B
blocks
!!BTW: If any of you want a guaranteed crack free A block and have one of those dastardly B blocks to trade..please PM me
!
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Bruce Lancaster
Member Emeritus
Hmmm...looks like there were way fewer than half a million US B engines made, fewer than 10% of Model A production. Most came in '32 Fords, causing huge numbers of B engines to be discarded by rodders bolting in flatheads, yet there seem to be a lot of the things still chugging along...
Germans kept making them for truck and industrial use into the 1950's, Russians and their friends made them much longer than that, and they were the backbone of Russian military transport in WWII...and in both Russia and England, they supplanted the A engine for use in AA type trucks made for years after 1931. Seems like they survived fairly well.
Germans kept making them for truck and industrial use into the 1950's, Russians and their friends made them much longer than that, and they were the backbone of Russian military transport in WWII...and in both Russia and England, they supplanted the A engine for use in AA type trucks made for years after 1931. Seems like they survived fairly well.