Model b head

ratamahata

ratamahata

Well-known member
Hey guys I was looking for a police head but did not find anyone at last, I think if possible to get in my country a model B head. they look in the web and have more compression than a stock and fit well in model A blocks!! Any suggestions when installing the head and the type of the gasket it´s welcome!! Oh!! And did not have the three bolts water pump, it´s possible to use an adapter for B head to fit any other water pump...
 
ratamahata said:
Hey guys I was looking for a police head but did not find anyone at last, I think if possible to get in my country a model B head. they look in the web and have more compression than a stock and fit well in model A blocks!! Any suggestions when installing the head and the type of the gasket it´s welcome!! Oh!! And did not have the three bolts water pump, it´s possible to use an adapter for B head to fit any other water pump...
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My suggestion would be to pass on the Model B (1932 head). There is only a slight compression gain, the water pump will be a pain, and it won't look right. I have never seen an adapter for a different water pump. If you do use the head you will need a Model B gasket. There are two holes near the center of the head that are close to the edge of the Model A gasket that will probably leak if you use a Model A gasket.

Charlie Stephens
 
I agree with Charlie, the gain by using a B head (marked "C") is hardly worth the effort. The correct water pumps are somewhat expensive and hard to find. I have been very satisfied with the Snyder's 5.5 : 1 head. It is a little more expensive that using a B head but you sure get a lot of bang for the buck! Gar Williams
 
Many Better Heads Available

Charlie has the right idea. The Ford Model B head was useful decades ago when they were cheap and the pumps were also. Now there are many choices from inexpensive(considering what you're getting) to less of a bargain. The greatest bargains seem to be the Brumfield and the Snyder. Both are widely used in this country and each has its own dedicated following. I have a Brumfield, but with poor communications and bizarre attitude, I would have been happier with a Snyder. If all goes well they are both quite good. The Model B with the large C on the top is used by some guys but I wonder if they have any idea what they are really doing. Good luck to them, but seems like a big waste of time and money. Fred A
 
Piranio's dyno sheet shows that a stock model A engine with a C head produced 46.77 corrected horsepower at 2200 RPM. The same engine with the Snyder 5.5 head produced 51.04 horsepower at 2200 RPM. The same engine is shown to produce 51.63 horsepower with the Brumfield head. I have a model A engine that is bored .080 with a good model B cam I ran this engine in a double A truck that I had. with the stock model A head this engine didn't show any improvement in speed and power than the stock engine. After break in, I found a good C head and water pump. I decided to try the C head and it really woke the engine up. The three bolt water pump is a big improvement, it cools MUCH better and doesn't have the tendency to push water out the overflow tube nearly as badly as the model A pump. I think if a person didn't mind the appearance the model C head will make a noticable improvement. Its not as good as a Brumfield or a Snyder for power but they can useally be found for around $75.00 .
 
AND the next batch, should I decide to produce them, will have yet another improvement and a change in the quench distance that I have already tested; plus a like change to the Brumfield Super Heads as well."

Where do I send the CA$H....Please Please
 
I settled for a Snyder 5.5 when I couldn't find a Brumfield head when I had to replace mine last year.

Like scokeing said, where do I send....
 
hardtimes said:
Thanks for your input for original posters question,i.e.-use of B/C head!
Could you state here for those using the B/C head, how to improve quench area and how much needed? Are you talking 'milling' or other technique??

ratamahata: As to you question about ADAPTING a water pump to the B/C head....you CAN obtain an adaptor to adapt (a more common)1933 thru 1936 style Ford V8 water pump to a 4 cylinder B/C head.
Adaptors can be ordered thru sacramento vintage ford: www.vintageford.com
catalogue page # 433, part # 1440 Ph # (toll free) 1-888-4-banger good luck!
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ratamahata,

this will get you closer to what you are looking for http://www.vintageford.com/part_search.cfm?line=4B&PartEntry=1440&Category=

Be advised there is no provision to mount a fan with the V8 water pump.

Charlie Stephens
 
hardtimes, Yes I was talking about milling the head. You first have to measure how far the pistons rise above deck height at top dead center. Originally the pistons rose about .030 to .032 . Here is how I figure mine. If using the copper gasket, they will usually compress to a thickness of arround .050 after being torqued. That puts the top of the piston .018 below the top of the gasket if the pistons are rising .032 above deck height. If the head is milled untill the counter bore above the piston has a depth of .030, this will give .048 clearance between the head and the top of the piston and this is actually more clearance than is necessary but allows for heat expansion and high rpm reach. you could get by with .030 clearance between the piston and the head after figuring the thickness of the compressed gasket. if you didn't exceed 3000 rpm.
 
Larry, I've got a buddy that owe's me a Snyder head, but I'd rather have one of yours. I'll get in touch with ya' through your website and find out what the "skinny" is on the next batch. And then kick my bud's butt to cough up some dough or be
ready to when your heads become available again. Bob-A
 
I have noticed that cylinder head discussion on Ford Barn is similar to RatRod discussion on the HAMB...........
 
Purdy, Larry,

Well, I've heard how Larry has a problem sometimes of full feeling
orders on time. A sometimes problem with a whole lot of companies "A"
related or not. I have yet tried to contact Larry because I was checking
out a nice '29 roadster for sale earlier day. When I do reach him we will
discuss the "skinny" on his new heads. And I'll go from there............:cool:
Speaking of the qualities of the product he produces. Your complaint is the first that I can remember ever reading and I have been lurking around the forums too for about 10 years. No body is perfect and if your into "A"s, well, that kind'a proves it.:eek: I have no reason to not beleive that
you personally had a problem with Larry or his heads, but it is no reason
to air your problems in public.:(

Bob-A:D
 
Thanks Herm for the good info. I have been working on my model A's for 50 years. I have put on lots of heads and I do them about the way that you describe. This head was much worse than normal or I wouldn't have mentioned it. I did get the head on and it is still running. I hope that I never have to remove it. I gave the car to my daughter but I am still the model A mechanic that has to fix it when problems happen.

The spark plug fit or lack of fit was the worse thing I didn't discover the problem until the head was bolted down. I didn't want to run a tap through the threads and get metal shavings in the engine. I think this problem was probably with the earlier heads because I had no problem with spark plug threads in the next two.
 
Instead of waiting almost 17 years to complain about it, you should have contacted me for a full refund or a replacement within a reasonable amount of time. As long as the customer did not have the head improperly re-surfaced, re-machined, overheat it, bake it in an oven or otherwise abuse or tamper with it, I ALWAYS stood behind the product.

The spark plug holes on that early head needed a light chamfer.

As for the location of the stud holes, I used a copy of the original Ford print and I have not changed the program in my milling machine since the first batch.
Now does this mean that a mistake can't happen? No.

Reminds me of a story that anyone out there can verify with a longtime engine rebuilder customer of mine, Mr. Stan Vermeil, of Vermeils Engines Only in northern California (if he hasn't kicked the bucket).

I asked him one day how he like the installation (which I would frequently do with all my professional engine customers to get intelligent feedback) and he said, "That's one thing that I like about yours. The others I have to usually fight to get them on but with yours I just drop it in place."

Of course he used "straight studs" like ones from ARP in California which are machined or rolled AFTER the heat treatment and not before; like so many of the bent ones from the Model A catalog dealers. ARP's process requires some high dollar tooling to machine that tough heat treated metal, but they are straight and nearly perfect when they're done. That's one of the reasons why they're not cheap.
 
CarlG said:
Does ARP have a part # for a complete kit, or for the individual studs, and where can one purchase these?
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Carl, punch in Automotive Racing Products on your search. They are a renown company for making all sorts of high strength automotive studs, bolts, nuts, etc., etc.. They also have a tech line as I recall.



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