model A towncar

[CHuDWah]

I just came across this thread and, in view of Brent's comment immediately above, want to make it clear I mean no disrespect to Mr. Ciccalone's memory. But since there has been some discussion of "imposter" Town Cars, does anyone know of a "forged" Town Car DELIVERY? That and the Special Delivery are my favorite body styles - Mom always said I had expensive taste!

 

[jkelsh]

I know there is a rough 1930 town car (1 of 3 known) for sale. It was on youtube on a video that it was mentioned. It was far too expensive for a high school student like me, but it is definately worth checking out

 

[400A-64]

There was a "Repo" Town Car Delivery" at the Towe Museum in Sacramento,CAlif. The late Larry Ibsen built the car and was displayed along side an original TCD at the 1980 MAFCA Meet in Reno. Most folks couldn't tell the difference.
Bruce Davis a400usa@nccn.net

 

[eystein]

The one on Youtube is stated to be a 1930 and has a 1930 cowl.

Was there really a 1930 town car ?

The Ford Model A as Henry Built it states that Town cars were delivered almost until the end of 1930. However, it is also stated that the contract with Briggs for the bodies was cancelled in Sep. 1929, and after that only 55 bodies were completed with the last one in Feb 1930.

Now, I find it really hard to believe that one would undertake all the effort needed to re-engineer and rebuild the cowl to 1930 specifications for the last handful of an already doomed body style.

So, was any town car ever delivered by Ford with a 1930 cowl and front ?

Another interesting question arises from the last sentence of page 212 of The Ford Model A as Henry Built it, where it is stated "Briggs Manufacturing Company continued to make its own Town Cars on Model "A" chassis"

Does anyone know if any such car has survived, and how they differed from the ones officially sold by Ford? Could the one on Youtube be one of those ?

 

[Great Lakes Greg]

I thought this was a newer post, so you can imagine my surprise when I saw Steve Ciccalones post! I miss that avatar and his words of wisdom. Regarding the town cars, there is no mention of '30-'31's. More rare than the proverbial hen's teeth, or just none at all? I also had no idea there were such differences in the back body lines. Thanks Brent, for those comparisan pics.

 

[Bick in New Zealand]

I thought this was a newer post, so you can imagine my surprise when I saw Steve Ciccalones post! I miss that avatar and his words of wisdom.

I'm with you on that one, I did a double take when I saw Steve's avatar come up, and wondered what was going on.

 

[Bick in New Zealand]

One of my favorite experiences was going across the bay with Tom Moniz to visit Larry Ibsen when he was living in San Francisco in the early 70s. Larry Ibsen was a master at fabricating that town car delivery body. We had the opportunity to see the work in progress, and the sheet metal work was so impressive. He was building that body by scaling up from pictures, and building it in his basement. If I remember correctly, he did re-do the rear bottom of the body after he actually had an opportunity to measure up an original TC delivery. While that particular body is a re-creation, there were plenty of quality original parts used elsewhere to complete the car. An amazing guy.

He certainly made a great job of it.

 

[Brad in Germany]

Here is a photo of an attempted Town Car Delivery in Den Hartogh Ford museum in The Netherlands.

Fordially,
Brad in Maryland

 

[Roadster62]

Most likely the one I saw 35-40 years ago at the Rhinebeck, N. Y. meet. It was a real 30-31, but if restored would be considered a reproduction by some. Bob

I know there is a rough 1930 town car (1 of 3 known) for sale. It was on youtube on a video that it was mentioned. It was far too expensive for a high school student like me, but it is definately worth checking out

 

[WTSHNN]

Mr. K, seminar time if you don't mind...

Knowing how controlling Henry was when it came to business matters, what do you think happened to allow Briggs to get away with "only" producing 1,143 bodies by the fall of '29 when they should have already delivered 1,500 by the previous April and by the fall should have delivered the full 2,500 as ordered? Did the slow sales cause Henry to soften his usual grasp on these suppliers? Or was it Ford who intentionally slowed up the production?

Secondly, not being familiar with the difference in body moldings on fordors; how closely do '30 doors mate with the moldings on the rear doors of a '29? Or is this what you refer to as "crudely refinished?" Based on what I know about other body styles, the moldings are quite different between the two years.

Just a couple of questions for my curiosity.
Thanks!
-Tim

 

[Roadster62]

Tim, I've thought Cabriolet doors were the same as Town Car, is that correct or not? Bob

 

[eystein]

Anyone got a photo of a known original 1930 town car or of the town car bodies independently supplied by Briggs ?

 

[Jim Huseby]

This is just a "what if" ; there probably is not an answer. Before, during and after the Model A era, coach-built cars were relatively common. Custom builders, or "coach works" built a large percentage of the bodies on Duesenberg, Marmon, Packard, etc. chassis. Though the Model A was not considered to have anything near the class of a Duesenberg, there were still a few special-bodied A's. ACD designer, Gordon Burig, built that beautiful special body for his A; there were numerous non-Ford production commercial bodies built, and so I think it is likely that someone at least thought of building their own A town sedan in 1929. If one or more had been built then, they would most likely not have the exact same design and dimensions as the official one. If such a thing surfaced now, the owner would rightly be under a lot of pressure from us to prove its date of manufacture and pedigree.

 

[dave in australia]

While we're talking TC's, does anybody know if the sole TC brought to Australia was a LHD or a RHD. All other vehicles, as far as I know, were RHD, but the TC could have been a LHD.

 

[Tudortomnz]

Dave,from what Ive read [ Dave Slatters articles], Ford Australia imported small numbers of odd body styles in '28 '29 [ 4 taxis, a 5w Coupe, a Panel Delivery,etc] probably as special orders or to test dealer interest. Ive seen a photo of a remaining Taxi & it was RHD. Certainly any types imported 'built up'' would have been RHD via Canada; also I believe Australian laws did not allow LHD up until recent years. The Tudors & Spt Cpes in '28 '29 were also imported built up unlike most Australian production which came in as chassis only with bodywork built& partly manufactured in Australia.
Maybe someone in Australia will know of the fate of the lone TC.

 

[dave in australia]

Dave,from what Ive read [ Dave Slatters articles], Ford Australia imported small numbers of odd body styles in '28 '29 [ 4 taxis, a 5w Coupe, a Panel Delivery,etc] probably as special orders or to test dealer interest. Ive seen a photo of a remaining Taxi & it was RHD. Certainly any types imported 'built up'' would have been RHD via Canada; also I believe Australian laws did not allow LHD up until recent years. The Tudors & Spt Cpes in '28 '29 were also imported built up unlike most Australian production which came in as chassis only with bodywork built& partly manufactured in Australia.
Maybe someone in Australia will know of the fate of the lone TC.

Well, if is was a RHD, then it was extremely rare. My own oppinion on the fate is that it being a 'lowly' model A, then it probably got destroyed with many other cars of all makes years ago.

 

[Brad in Germany]

Custom bodied Towncar in France

Tim,

Among many custom car body builders in Europe, Novex, a French builder, offered a Towncar (Coupe de Ville Luxe avec Chauffeur) style body on a Ford Model A chassis.

Here are scans of the various pages from that the Novex brochure (borrowed from paperheaven on eBay, see eBay #220848286618) that shows the Towncar style custom body (see third scan below).

On the US side of the ocean, below is a photo of an era custom made Town Car delivery, made by Fisk Alden in Massachusetts.

Fordially,
Brad in Maryland

 

[CHuDWah]

Re: Custom bodied Towncar in France

I wonder how it ended up with 6 lug wheels?

Yeah, those are some serious wheels - otherwise, looks like the front half of a roadster/phaeton joined to the back half of a tudor.

 

[eystein]

While it's an interesting question, I suspect that no such "custom body" Model A Ford Town Cars were built. The question is....what would a custom body builder create a body that already exists? Rather, custom body builders would most likely have created something unique like the Burig body Cabriolet (if that's what it was named?).

Well, as per my earlier post, there is the last sentence of page 212 of "The Ford Model A as Henry Built it", where it is stated "Briggs Manufacturing Company continued to make its own Town Cars on Model "A" chassis"

In such a case, Briggs could have reused all tooling that they used for the bodies that they delivered to Ford.

Is anything known of any such cars ?

 

[ronn]

Since starting this post I have gone out and bought a Pierce Arrow. That is my "new" towncar and at much less then many model A's sell for. The theory of supply and demand....
I have learned quite a bit since starting this post. Actually went to look at one in "parts" condition, that was rescued from the scrap heap in the mid 60's. It is in NY and the body, or what's left of it, sits on the wrong chassis.It would take an expert to get it back together properly and it still would be a pieced together car. Price was only 75k
One of the reasons it appears, for slow sales on these models was-they were only distributed on Lincoln lots and not Ford lots. The other thing was that these sold for twice as much as the other models. Tie that in with the depression, and it was a failure attributed to Edsel Ford wanting to build and sell this model.
When I get the cabrio and phaeton to where I want them, I will still consider attempting to build a copy.
Thanks for all of the information gathered. It's been fun!