Hi everyone, I bought a 28 Sport Coupe, and it was converted to hydraulic brakes. The front spindle bushings have a lot of play in them, and I'd like to put in new king pins and bushings. it looks to me that it has the Model A king pins, but the bearing looks to be under the axle, and there is a arm added to the left side spindle for the drag link to attach to. My question is should I order a Model A king pin and bushing set, or one of the V8 sets? I'll try to post a picture of the setup, if anyone could help. Thanks
Model A Spindles
- Thread starter oldscout
- Start date
Joe K
Well-known member
The axle may be Model A, but the rest of it looks like something else.
It may be in the conversion of hydraulic brakes, the owner chose to use 37 to 48 Ford front spindles rather than use the "conversion kit" commonly sold to put 37-48 backing plates to Model A components.
Normally the vertical thrust bearing appears just below the brake "hood" at the top of the pin.
There would appear to be greater distance between the spindle sleeve bearings to accomdate the spindle thrust bearing in-between.
Given that you seem to have a Model A Kingpin (it looks EXACTLY like mine.) I expect you could replace like in kind. Watch out for the groove where the keeper pin keeps the king-pin, however. Given the interchange of parts here, they may have cut a new groove in your old pin - which you will have to duplicate.
Joe K
It may be in the conversion of hydraulic brakes, the owner chose to use 37 to 48 Ford front spindles rather than use the "conversion kit" commonly sold to put 37-48 backing plates to Model A components.
Normally the vertical thrust bearing appears just below the brake "hood" at the top of the pin.
There would appear to be greater distance between the spindle sleeve bearings to accomdate the spindle thrust bearing in-between.
Given that you seem to have a Model A Kingpin (it looks EXACTLY like mine.) I expect you could replace like in kind. Watch out for the groove where the keeper pin keeps the king-pin, however. Given the interchange of parts here, they may have cut a new groove in your old pin - which you will have to duplicate.
Joe K
Looks like 37-41 or 42-48 spindles on a Model-A axle with king pins of unknown vintage. As noted above, they could be A, B, or early V-8 with new grooves cut to patch the spindle profile. If you want to keep the spindles, it would be better to use the correct matching king pins - they are less expensive that those for the Model-A and plentiful on Whee-Bay.
As for the 37-41 or 42-48 spindles, I never liked having the tie rod hanging down below the wishbone - it just doesn't look quite right to me. It could be my imagination, but the 37-48 spindles seem to place the top of the tire a bit outside of the center of the fender. Maybe somebody can confirm that?
As for the 37-41 or 42-48 spindles, I never liked having the tie rod hanging down below the wishbone - it just doesn't look quite right to me. It could be my imagination, but the 37-48 spindles seem to place the top of the tire a bit outside of the center of the fender. Maybe somebody can confirm that?
Randy in ca
Well-known member
Your pictures show some definite contradictions. The only early ford spindles that had a completely round back flange (such as these) where the backing plates bolt on, were those used from 1937 to 1941. However those spindles did NOT have an integral upper steering arm - only 1932 to 1934 spindles had these, and your spindles are definitely not 32-34.
The backing plates appear to be those of the first style of hydraulics, used beginning in 1939. They have adjustable lower anchors for the shoes - later style had fixed lower anchors which were used until 1948.
A general rule of thumb when swapping post 1936 Ford spindles onto different axles is to use the kingpins corresponding to the year of the spindles being used.
You may have to clean things up and have a real good look - is there any chance that upper steering arm has been welded to the spindle?
The backing plates appear to be those of the first style of hydraulics, used beginning in 1939. They have adjustable lower anchors for the shoes - later style had fixed lower anchors which were used until 1948.
A general rule of thumb when swapping post 1936 Ford spindles onto different axles is to use the kingpins corresponding to the year of the spindles being used.
You may have to clean things up and have a real good look - is there any chance that upper steering arm has been welded to the spindle?
Thanks for the replies, I haven't started to tear it apart yet, still trying to straiten out the mess someone made on the backs. I'll pull them apart, and let you know what I find. I've read that the V8 kingpin will not work because of the wedge bolt cutout on the kingpin will not line up in the Model A axle. I also have a RHD 30 roadster that I rebuilt the front end on, and I still have the old parts I took off. I'll compare the size of the bearing with this one. At least I'll know if the V8 bearing is the same size as the Model A one. Thanks again.
Looks like 37-41 sindles that someone welded an upper A arm to so they didn't have to modify the backing plates judging from the grinding by the upper grease fitting. I suspect you will see that the right side arm cross steer rod eye has been ground off. You can use A or aftermarket 28 to 34 pins without the sockets (since you don't need them). You will have to decide how you want the front end to look. Either you will have to modify the backing plates to use A or 32 to 34 spindles to look traditional or if you keep the spindles I'd wack off the upper arm (which looks like an A arm welded on) and use a bolt on arm. I wouldn't trust that old weld. Having the king pin bearing installed incorrectly is not a good sign that this was a "Quality" installation. Lots of decissions. Just be safe. Good luck. Tim
It does look to be a '37-'41 spindle with a steering are welded on, but there is only one place the bearing can go with those. The distance between the yokes is greater on that spindle as the thrust is seen by the axle and not the top of the king pin forging. If you attempted to place the thrust bearing on top of the axle you will have .530 extra clearance between the axle and spindle yokes and also a very short king pin, with not much purchase area in the lower bushing.
The bearing is in the correct area for that spindle. To get that particular installation together I believe they cut new notches for the k/p retainer locking pins.
It's not original, nor will it ever look it, not that there's anything wrong with that. I'd clean it up, replace whatever it needs and drive it and have fun. The best k/p set IMO would be '37-'41.
The bearing is in the correct area for that spindle. To get that particular installation together I believe they cut new notches for the k/p retainer locking pins.
It's not original, nor will it ever look it, not that there's anything wrong with that. I'd clean it up, replace whatever it needs and drive it and have fun. The best k/p set IMO would be '37-'41.
Last edited:
Well, I waded out through the snow to take another look, and the upper steering arm is welded on. I think it will be safer to use the bolt on arm, and cut this one off. If my parts for the rear backing plates ever make it through the snow, I'll be able to start on the fronts. Thanks for the help
FlatheadTed
Well-known member
Here's some shots of a replacement pins we did on later 37 to 48?? stubs/spindles in your case there should be a spare hole on the right side at the tie rod fixing indicating a later spindle .These backing plates are the later style fixed anchors .The pins are the longer of two options .note were the bearing is now placed the top cap is riveted on rather than the old style machined in one , there will require some modification here ..
Attachments
oldscout, refer to the thread noted-
http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=118695&highlight=spindles
The spindles in the photos above in post no. 9 are modified and not what you are working with. The thrust bearing is not held securely by the top of that king pin.
FlatheadTed
Well-known member
This type of king pin if used will require a modification at the top and bottom better still if you can get the machine in one type .not a bad option for placement of the bearing at the top as some spindles do not have room for the bearing between .
Last edited:
So, should I order the early V8 king pins and bushings, or the Model A pins and bushing? I haven't driven it yet except from the trailer to the garage, but the bushings have a lot of play in them. The brakes did work on the front wheels, but the backs were leaking because the backing plates were to close to the spring perch and the brake pipe didn't seal good. Plus the pipe looked like spaghetti run along there frame to the rear. And the rear convertion was suposed to have been done by a mechanic !
FlatheadTed
Well-known member
You could order the shorter v8 pins that will place your bearing were it is now , but I would check the measurements with the supplier so the your cotter pin will end up in the same spot .
I just compared a '32-'34 king pin to a '37-'41 and the notches for the retainer match, so my earlier statement that new notches were required was wrong.
That being said I would still order K/P's for those '37-'41 spindles. Model A and early V8 (pre '37) king pins would work but are much more expensive.
The thrust bearings can only go in at the bottom of the axle, the distance between yokes on the spindle is 2.920 for your '37-'41's and the '28-'31, '32-'34, and '35-'36 distance between yokes is only 2.520.
That being said I would still order K/P's for those '37-'41 spindles. Model A and early V8 (pre '37) king pins would work but are much more expensive.
The thrust bearings can only go in at the bottom of the axle, the distance between yokes on the spindle is 2.920 for your '37-'41's and the '28-'31, '32-'34, and '35-'36 distance between yokes is only 2.520.