model a shop question?

bobbycoke

bobbycoke

Senior Member
I am thinking of putting a steel I beam in my shop to hold an electric hoist/wench with a two ton capacity. It needs to cover a 19 foot span.... the hoist will move along it, to move engines, bodys etc, the two ton capacity is for a good saftey measure. How large an I beam would be needed 19foot long by ?. how do they charge for such a piece of steel, byfoot,by pound etc.... thanks for any knowledge shared..:confused:
 
http://www.toolbase.org/Design-Construction-Guides/Exterior-Walls/steel-beam-column-load

this might get you started.
keep in mind your intended load use, the girder span, the column hight and those loads.
the existing foundation, what you will need to do to retrofit and prepare for those rather large footings and is it to be free standing, supported by the existing structure or supporting the existing structure.
steel is sold by the pound, specific prices can be applied to lengths. frequently calculated by contractors.
look for some local laid off iron workers.
 
That is way overkill. If you haven't already gotten the equipment, scale it down somewhat. I use an old butcher shop rail and pulley, and a hand operated 1,000 pound chain fall but it would handle a small electric unit if you wanted it to. My shop roof has 2x12's spaced on 12" centers. The hangers for the rail are lag-screwed into every-other joist. I lift Model A engines all the time with it, and have lifted an engine/trans unit together, no problems!
 
In the 60's I used an old swing set frame with a loop of chain and hung a 1/4 ton manual hoist from it. Used it to pull A engine's and install olds V8 in my 32 coupe in the driveway. That swing set used to get transported all over the city for others doing the same thing.
Paul in CT
 
OVERKILL is right.

unless you are running a busy professional restoration shop you do NOT need to spend this money.

get a folding engine hoist from Harbor Freight. this will enable you to pull engines and lift rear axle assemblies to move them around the shop.

lifting a body is generally a less frequent event. build or buy a wheeled dolly. you and 3 other bubbas can lift the body off the frame with long 4x4s while your wife or bubba #5 pulls the chassis out and pushes the dolly into place.

if your shop has sufficient headroom or you have a good outdoor work area, get a Backyard Buddy lift. THAT is money well spent.
 
As Chris Said---- O V E R K I L L...

Rather than add to the what I've done, seen done. Will give you a few really weights to look at for Model As'....

Engine/transmission combo-- 610lbs.
Entire Sport Coupe-- 2216lbs
Body-- +- 440 Lbs

If you have enough overhead (12 Ft) you can pickup a 2 post floor lift for less than $2000. I'm sure that I-Beam (once shipping, installation and refitting is included) will be that much.

I have one of those Harbor Freight hoist and only wish that it had bigger wheels on it. (seems to get stuck a lot).. I have lifted anything I need to with it.
 
bobbycoke said:
I am thinking of putting a steel I beam in my shop to hold an electric hoist/wench with a two ton capacity. It needs to cover a 19 foot span.... the hoist will move along it, to move engines, bodys etc, the two ton capacity is for a good saftey measure. How large an I beam would be needed 19foot long by ?. how do they charge for such a piece of steel, byfoot,by pound etc.... thanks for any knowledge shared..:confused:
Click to expand...

29Wagon pretty well covered what needs to be known.
It would probably be a good idea to consult a structural engineer first.
Depending on how the beam is mounted, you may be able to get away with a 5 inch 10 lb. beam or it may require an 8 inch 48 lb beam.
When it comes to hoists or cranes it can't be done safely with hip pocket calculations.
 
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Hoist2.jpg

Hoist3.jpg

Hoist4.jpg


This is the frame I made to lift engines, etc. and move them around. I think the I beam would cost much more and it would limit your movement to left and right, not forward and rearward, unless you also installed side tracks and rollers for the I beam.

I used 2" square tubing to make it, and a piece that slides inside for the top, so I can C clamp it to any width I want. It's easy to break down for storage or transporting. I paid $5 at a swap meet for the crank and pulley, and about another $5 for the 4 casters. The steel was about $20 as I recall.
 
let's just suppose bobbycoke has the space, the hight, the time, the money.
why not do it right. if any of you've been in an actual steel supply shop, i'm not saying you haven't. but if this guy puts it out there the way he wants it, help him out.
i know the simple way gets it done a couple of times and hind sight is 20/20 but if it were me swapping out a body or a motor and the guy within shouting distance who likes overkill as said, he's the guy i'm going to.
why risk injury or time on a make shift when you can do it safely and quickly with someone els' equipment.
i threw my 1.5 ton hoist up on a gallows to yank the motor, a temporary job.
took it down the next day. no money spent.
if i knew you had a 19' span pulley hoist i'd be knocking on your door bobbycoke.
built it and they will come.
 
bobbycoke said:
I am thinking of putting a steel I beam in my shop to hold an electric hoist/wench with a two ton capacity. It needs to cover a 19 foot span.... the hoist will move along it, to move engines, bodys etc, the two ton capacity is for a good saftey measure. How large an I beam would be needed 19foot long by ?. how do they charge for such a piece of steel, byfoot,by pound etc.... thanks for any knowledge shared..:confused:
Click to expand...

I would call the local steel yard. They can answer both questions.

I also own a track hoist that was removed from the garage in town where I used to work. It's a T track and secured to each joist, so the track can be much lighter and still carry a big load.
 
Overkill? I love overkill! Your concern regarding a safety factor is well taken and appropriate. Other uses will become apparant as you go forward, and it is only overkill if you limit yourself to the current vision of your capacities or intentions. My wife says the only reason I play with Model A's is to buy tools and build equipment and fixtures, and the truth is I have not yet been able to provide a substantive argument for that statement. Fortunately for me, my wife is very supportive of me and my interests. Try not to confuse tunnel vision with focus. Don't be afraid to take on a project a little larger than you originally envision as it will soon come to pass that you now have the ability to do things that you first thought were not possible. The large beam and hoist that you are considering is indeed overkill, as others have suggested, if you want to limit yourself to only the Model A motor and body use, but it opens up the possibility of other uses such as the ability to move some heavy equipment like a milling machine or a lathe. You can now fabricate a heavy welding table, move a welder about, etc. Think larger. If done correctly the support could provide a more stable support for the floor above enabling you acquire that new large television or a large waterbed that you have been thinking about LOL. Tom’s suggestion of contacting a scrap yard is a very good one. My local scrap yard has a very knowledgeable structural employee and the metal costs are significantly less. For minimal additional expense you could later add a small jib crane to one of the support posts further widening you hoisting capabilities, like for lifting your Model A motor in and out of your pickup. The wider you allow yourself to think the broader your knowledge becomes and other ideas and potential will follow. As always, this is just a thought.
 
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Tom had the correct answer. The engineers at your local supplier will calculate the size of the beam, its delivered cost, and advise you how to support it. They can also set it in place for you.

I installed a ten inch "I" beam in my shop to use as you plan to use yours. It spans 22 feet. I really like it for there is no clutter in the shop taking up valuable shop floor space. It may be overkill but, in 40 years of use, it has not broken, bent, or dropped anything. Gar Williams
 
Bobbycoke,
Most of the guys are dancing around your questions....for a good reason. No matter what anyone throws out for advice for beam sizing it is open to critique by some very knowledgeable people on the forum. There are a lot of unknown factors regarding your installation and use. You also get into opinions of acceptable limits of deflection, connection and support conditions and design loading safety factors.
But...I am not afraid of a bit of critical comment so I will throw this out and expect that maybe it will be shot to pieces.
19ft single span condition...2000lb load electric winch...the single point loading will be applied to the bottom flange of the steel beam if you are using an adjustable trolley above the electric hoist (which results in less chance the beam will fail due to twisting). IMO: A W8 x 13# (4.00 wide flange) steel beam should give you over a 2x safety factor.
Most steel yards will cut the exact length you need. Most yards charge by the pound with some factor for the remaining drop (amount remaining that is cut off the stock length). Your beam will weigh 19ft x 13# = 247#

Personally, I would have no concern using a lighter beam due to the bottom flange loading condition of a rolling trolley. If height were an issue, I would use a W6 x 15# (5.99 wide flange) Most rolling trolleys are adjustable to work with different width beams and beam heights as little as 4".

You did not mention the end bearing conditions so I can only make assumptions. If supported by two columns to the floor, you should securely attach the ends of the beam to the columns to keep the beam from twisting. (4) 1/2" bolts at each end should do the trick. If you are hanging the beam from the top flange to your existing walls there is less concern for twisting but I would still use the same (4) 1/2" bolts with spacers between the beam and the top support surface to stop rotation. Remember the bolts in a hanging condition must carry the weight of the loads you are applying plus the tension of the connection you apply by tightening the nuts.
Hope this helps.
Credentials...none...only a builder for 35 years that has not had anything collapse yet.

Personally, I have a W6 x 12 x 20ft beam with a trolley and chain hoist in my shop. The beam is hung from the top and has provided me with over 17 years of service. The heaviest item I lift is a fully dressed engine with transmission attached so my loading conditions are less than your design expectations. I have a 2 ton trolley with a 1.5 ton chain hoist. If I was building a shop again, I would put the same design in again. It sure is handy and it takes up no floor space.
Good Day!
Dave in MN
 
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You can set up overhead track that moves on another set of 90 degree opposed tracks, permitting movement to any point on your shop floor, or do just a straight run.
Take a look at this stuff: Overhead Conveyor Systems
 
Bobbycoke
I have wanted to have a cross beam w/lift as you described for as long as I can remember. However finances, space and etc. relegated me to a floor roll around cherry picker type hoist. I have become acustomed to what may be a feature that I would not enjoy with a cross beam lift, controling the in-out movement. While it may be possable to roll the chassis back and forth to place the engine in place, you may run into a situation where the chassis is on jack stands.

I picked up a used folding model for next to nothing that sits at parade rest in the corner of the shop, or covered outside when extra space is needed. While you can pick one up at the China store, I enjoy shopping on craigs list and garage sales. I missed one about a year ago when a neighbor gave one away and I didn't know it, but what would one do with two!

You may will go with the cross beam approach and if you do, you can increase the load carrying capacity easily. By using two trollies attached to a beam that is 3' or so long, your load is spread over a greater area and you could use a cheaper and lighter cross beam. This will reduce your overhead clearance, but may save you a lot. Be sure to check out your loading with an engineer and or a architect.
 
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