Model A Crash in Temple City, CA

Wow, how sad. Terrible thing. Maybe seat belts if there were any, could have saved them enough to escape the burning car but sounds like there was very little time to get out car went up in flames real fast.
 
From what is known so far, seat belts would not have helped in this case, in fact, they may have made things worse. Anyone caught in a burning car does not need the confusion of undoing a seat belt to slow them down. They need to get out and quickly. It sounds as though the driver might have had a heart attack or some other sudden incapacitation.
As an aside, it also sounds like a seam split in the gas tank and covered the inside with raw gasoline. Has any testing ever been done for this? Perhaps in the future we'll be wise to treat these tanks as the self sealing tanks on WW2 fighter aircraft and come up with a process to rubber line them.
Terry
 
Terry said:
From what is known so far, seat belts would not have helped in this case, in fact, they may have made things worse. Anyone caught in a burning car does not need the confusion of undoing a seat belt to slow them down. They need to get out and quickly. It sounds as though the driver might have had a heart attack or some other sudden incapacitation.
As an aside, it also sounds like a seam split in the gas tank and covered the inside with raw gasoline. Has any testing ever been done for this? Perhaps in the future we'll be wise to treat these tanks as the self sealing tanks on WW2 fighter aircraft and come up with a process to rubber line them.
Terry
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I wonder if the steering bracket on the tank might have ripped a hole? It's such a sad situation, and this is the first accident I've heard of a gas tank opening and causing a fire.
 
as terrible a tragedy this is, I can think of worse ways of going.

They were together for many years and enjoyed driving around town in a very nice car.

May they Rest in Peace.

J
 
Tom Wesenberg said:
I wonder if the steering bracket on the tank might have ripped a hole? It's such a sad situation, and this is the first accident I've heard of a gas tank opening and causing a fire.
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I agree. Been in the old car hobby for almost 50 years and I can't recall ever hearing about an accident involving a Model A where something similar happened.

Which is why I hope we eventually get a report on why this fire occurred.
 
All you have to do is break that glass jar on the engine side of the Model A firewall, and gasoline will gush directly onto the red-hot exhaust manifold.

In a serious collision like this, there are a number of ways that glass could have been broken during the impact and absorption of energy by the car body and frame. It could have also simply broken the entire assembly off of the firewall with the same results- fuel gushing onto the exhaust manifold.

If the flames make it into the fuel tank, then the fire will erupt and create great pressure inside the tank, causing it to burst. Or at the very least, cause the fuel gauge glass to shoot out and throw burning fuel on the interior of the car.
 
So sad - such a tragedy.

1000x563


Brad in Maryland
 
Terry said:
From what is known so far, seat belts would not have helped in this case, in fact, they may have made things worse. Anyone caught in a burning car does not need the confusion of undoing a seat belt to slow them down.

Terry
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I have to state that science strongly disagrees with your opinion. More people die because of holding this belief than might ever be saved because of not wearing seat belts.

The lack of seat belts significantly increases the risk of a loss or consciousness or being disabled. It is much harder to exit a car when you are incapacitated. Statistically the odds are MUCH better of surviving in all cases if you have a seatbelt on. This particular accident is likely the results of a combination of issues. Old couple and an obviously very hard hit into the tree. We do not know what 'improvements' the car might have had and what interesting things were done to the car during a restoration. Maybe it was a gas tank that was cut open for a cleaning and the seam tore? Don't know. We do know that A's do not commonly catch fire. Look at the last few hard head on's they all came out ok. This accident makes me think the correct type fuel line and the cast bowl are a safer choice. A fuel filter on the line has to be a risk if the engine shifts. It could break or pull out of the rubber tubing. A metal fuel line will kink and significantly reduce the flow rate if it were to break, sort of naturally cutting itself off.

The level of fire in this accident so quick really makes me think the tank ruptured or maybe got crushed and forced fuel out the top. Did it have the spark screen in? That might reduce the amount of fuel that could flow out. Maybe a repro gas cap that came off? For the fire to get into the cab so quick, there is a barrier and the witnesses said the fire was very quick. Was the windshield open and gas got in that way?

I think it would be important for the A community to learn the full cause. This would allow us to prevent future tragedy if that is possible.
 
P.S. said:
All you have to do is break that glass jar on the engine side of the Model A firewall, and gasoline will gush directly onto the red-hot exhaust manifold.

In a serious collision like this, there are a number of ways that glass could have been broken during the impact and absorption of energy by the car body and frame. It could have also simply broken the entire assembly off of the firewall with the same results- fuel gushing onto the exhaust manifold.

If the flames make it into the fuel tank, then the fire will erupt and create great pressure inside the tank, causing it to burst. Or at the very least, cause the fuel gauge glass to shoot out and throw burning fuel on the interior of the car.
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I had not thought about that, but upon reflection I thought most '31s had the iron sediment bulb. I tried to change from an iron bulb in a '31 to a repro glass but did not like the fit and returned it.

One of the Service Letters books instructs dealers, without further explanation, to remove glass bowls that came in for a gasket replacement and replace it with an iron bulb for the cost of the little gasket.

We have seen numerous pictures of horrendous old wrecks posted here, but this is one of the most upsetting.
 
I don't mean to sound meddlesome, but would it be desirable for some local collector to contact whoever the investigators are, to provide them with information about the construction details of our cars? Will investigators know about fuel tank screens, glass sediment bowls, seat belt additions, etc. of a very old vehicle?
 
I once shot a 12ga rifled slug at a old 5 gal oil can filled with water. Small entry hole! Very much damage the back of the can. The seam was opened up and the can was basically flattened. I had not considered Kevin's point about being knocked unconscious in the car without seat belts and no padded of soft dash boards. My mind sort of went back to flying and someone trying to get out of a belt with flames all around them. I knew someone this happened to and his only salvation was to get down and get out fast.
I believe this problem was present in the 1930s also. I think I read it was the main reason that the gas tank was moved from behind the dash to the rear of the car and fuel pumps were used. In any event, It's a tragic loss for the family and a huge black eye for the antique automobiles.
Terry
 
I really think the (probable) lack of seat belts contributed most to the fatalities. People sustaining fatal head injuries from hitting the windshield in relatively minor accidents were one of the main reasons for the adoption of seat belts in the first place.
For a lot of larger/taller people, will just seatbelts be enough? maybe a shoulder belt,too? That windshield is very close in an A-even with a seatbelt, you might still have your head hit the glass.
 
For those of you that live in the area of the wreck, could someone post a finding of the investigation results when it becomes available from the police. Those of us from law enforcement would like to know the cause. I'm very sorry for their family.
 
Obviously a very sad occurrence , MY SINCERE THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS ARE EXTENDED TO FAMILY AND FRIENDS , May God Bless all concerned ! Wayne
 
jeep44 said:
I really think the (probable) lack of seat belts contributed most to the fatalities. People sustaining fatal head injuries from hitting the windshield in relatively minor accidents were one of the main reasons for the adoption of seat belts in the first place.
For a lot of larger/taller people, will just seatbelts be enough? maybe a shoulder belt,too? That windshield is very close in an A-even with a seatbelt, you might still have your head hit the glass.
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I often thought too, when we had the '29 Tudor, if the driver would get tossed forward in a collision and get the wiper motor control lever shaft shiskabbobed thru the forehead:eek:

Interesting points made about in-line fuel filters and glass sediment bowl. Good observations. I am sticking with the cast sediment bowl and factory fuel line set up. I've seen lots of photos taken in the '30's of horrific Model A crashes and don't recall a single one where the car burst into flames like THIS car did------------
 
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