Model A Clutch

T

tommyleea

Senior Member
1931 Coupe. I am adjusting the clutch pedal Freeplay on my Model A. I have a question about the clutch arm, when it is disconnected from the clutch pedal. Compared to a later clutch, that has a clutch fork with the throw out bearing attached to it. When you disconnect the linkage, you can move the clutch fork and bearing back and forth easily. When I disconnected my clutch linkage from the clutch arm on the Model A, their is significant resistance to movement of the arm. Is this normal, or is my clutch arm/bearing binding up? To get the correct Freeplay I had to use a cheater bar to align the clutch arm with the clutch pedal linkage to install the pin. Seems excessive, and not sure why. Thanks. TommyJ
 
There is a spring to pull it back and there is a grease fitting for the hub to lubricate where it slides on the trans snout
 
What Kurt said. Pull the floor boards and then the cover on the bell housing that is attached with two screws. You don't have to remove the screws, just loosen them up and slide the cover up and off. Inside you will find the collar that the throwout bearing sits on and the spring and grease fitting. Grease the collar but not too much because you do not want grease on the clutch. See if that helps. You can also remove the spring to see if the collar slides freely. While you are at it, grease the shaft that the pedals ride on. The later cars have grease fitting but if you have an earlier bell housing you will have to take the pedals off the grease the shaft. If you want you can add grease fittings to the pedals.
 
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nkaminar said:
What Kurt said. Pull the floor boards and then the cover on the bell housing that is attached with two screws. You don't have to remove the screws, just loosen them up and slide the cover up and off. Inside you will find the collar that the throwout bearing sits on and the spring and grease fitting. Grease the collar but not too much because you do not want grease on the clutch. See if that helps. You can also remove the spring to see if the collar slides freely. While you are at it, grease the shaft that the pedals ride on. The later cars have grease fitting but if you have an earlier bell housing you will have to take the pedals off the grease the shaft. If you want you can add grease fittings to the pedals.
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Copy..Thanks..I do have grease zerts on the pedal shaft.

Kurt in NJ said:
There is a spring to pull it back and there is a grease fitting for the hub to lubricate where it slides on the trans snout
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Spring to pull it back. That explains it .. Thanks. TommyJ
 
It is normal to habe resistance when you are expanding the spring enough to do so. Look inside the inspection cover and see it.
I use a medium pipe wrench h in the arm to get the leverage to insert the pin. It helps to have someone on too top to keep the pedal up but can be done by one .
3/4 ish inch free play is what you are looking for. Again, it is normal to habe some resistance against the spring. I think you will find the leverage of the pipe wrench on the arm makes it much easier.
Good luck!
Larry Shepard
 
larrys40 said:
It is normal to habe resistance when you are expanding the spring enough to do so. Look inside the inspection cover and see it.
I use a medium pipe wrench h in the arm to get the leverage to insert the pin. It helps to have someone on too top to keep the pedal up but can be done by one .
3/4 ish inch free play is what you are looking for. Again, it is normal to habe some resistance against the spring. I think you will find the leverage of the pipe wrench on the arm makes it much easier.
Good luck!
Larry Shepard
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Thanks Larry, good idea. I readjusted my clutch, but it still grinds like no tomorrow.
 
Marshall V. Daut said:
Lower the carb's idle speed until just above stalling. If the idle is too high, the gears WILL grind when shifting.
Marshall
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Thanks Marshall..I have the idle set so low now it is at stall speed. Still sounds like the gears are spinning at high speed when I try to shift, and it grinds to embarrassment. I skip going from first to second. Start out in second and shift as soon as I start moving. I need to fix it, because it is not fun to drive.
 
If your ****** fluid is too thin, it will not sufficiently slow down the gears between shifts. A thin lube (a modern one) will also not coat (cling to) the gear teeth and will have a tendency to leak out of the case. I use a 50-50 mix of STP oil treatment and 600w lube in the transmission and steering box.
If you are unsure of the ****** lube, just drain it and examine it for thickness. If it's 600w, it will have a disgustingly nasty smell that will not wash out of your clothes. It's also quite thick and a has dark-brown color. If the drained fluid is light-colored and thin without any disagreeable odor, it's modern lube designed for synchromesh transmissions with angled gear teeth. That's why your gears won't slow down enough when shifting to (almost) eliminate grinding. Even after 60 years driving Model A's, I still double-clutch to reduce grinding. I do it automatically without even thinking about it. Try double clutching, too.
Marshall
 
Marshall V. Daut said:
If your ****** fluid is too thin, it will not sufficiently slow down the gears between shifts. A thin lube (a modern one) will also not coat (cling to) the gear teeth and will have a tendency to leak out of the case. I use a 50-50 mix of STP oil treatment and 600w lube in the transmission and steering box.
If you are unsure of the ****** lube, just drain it and examine it for thickness. If it's 600w, it will have a disgustingly nasty smell that will not wash out of your clothes. It's also quite thick and a has dark-brown color. If the drained fluid is light-colored and thin without any disagreeable odor, it's modern lube designed for synchromesh transmissions with angled gear teeth. That's why your gears won't slow down enough when shifting to (almost) eliminate grinding. Even after 60 years driving Model A's, I still double-clutch to reduce grinding. I do it automatically without even thinking about it. Try double clutching, too.
Marshall
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Thanks Marshall. I did replace the oil for the reason you speak of. Got the 600W from battlefieldmodelA..Tried double and triple clutching, counting to 10, and standing on my head. No help. Might try the STP..I see a thread now about Meropa ISO 1500. Might look into that also. Thanks..TommyJ
 
Here's another oddball cause for gear grinding during shifting. It happened to my 1931 DeLuxe Roadster - EVERYTHING happens to me! The cluster gear shaft broke in two, even though it was new, purchased from a national vendor. There was a vibration from inside the transmission and no matter what I did, gear grinding during shifts was unavoidable. Eliminating other possibilities, I pulled and disassembled the transmission. Sure enough! The cluster gear shaft was broken into two uneven pieces. I can only surmise that it was a cheap soft metal off-shore part that somehow slipped past QC at the vendor's. A lot of work just to replace a $5.00 shaft. :(
Does your transmission also have a vibration? If so, it might have a broken shaft, too. The odds are long against that, but it did happen to me in the mid-1990's. Hopefully all those shafts were jerked from the vendor's shelves after I complained about its short life and the effort required to replace it. They still charged me for a replacement shaft, though. Grrrrrr....
Marshall
 
Marshall V. Daut said:
Here's another oddball cause for gear grinding during shifting. It happened to my 1931 DeLuxe Roadster - EVERYTHING happens to me! The cluster gear shaft broke in two, even though it was new, purchased from a national vendor. There was a vibration from inside the transmission and no matter what I did, gear grinding during shifts was unavoidable. Eliminating other possibilities, I pulled and disassembled the transmission. Sure enough! The cluster gear shaft was broken into two uneven pieces. I can only surmise that it was a cheap soft metal off-shore part that somehow slipped past QC at the vendor's. A lot of work just to replace a $5.00 shaft. :(
Does your transmission also have a vibration? If so, it might have a broken shaft, too. The odds are long against that, but it did happen to me in the mid-1990's. Hopefully all those shafts were jerked from the vendor's shelves after I complained about its short life and the effort required to replace it. They still charged me for a replacement shaft, though. Grrrrrr....
Marshall
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I am planning to take the shift tower off, and take a look inside for anything obvious. Not sure if I could see the cluster gear problem or not. I don't really notice much vibration. I have another transmission on the shelf as a last resort. Thanks for the heads-up. TommyJ
 
Marshall has helped cover the bases well , as always… when still and clutch depressed can you shift into gear without grinding ? If not you may have a clutch pressure plate issue.
With the bases covered it really should be shifting ok… I always tell folks to lazy shift counting 1,2 sometimes. With a proper idle speed set and a good operating clutch the rest is up to the driver…. They are straight cut gears no synchronizer so smooth shifting may take practice. Are there any other Model A guys in your area. If so maybe another set of eyes and some outside help or analysis may be of help .
 
larrys40 said:
Marshall has helped cover the bases well , as always… when still and clutch depressed can you shift into gear without grinding ? If not you may have a clutch pressure plate issue.
With the bases covered it really should be shifting ok… I always tell folks to lazy shift counting 1,2 sometimes. With a proper idle speed set and a good operating clutch the rest is up to the driver…. They are straight cut gears no synchronizer so smooth shifting may take practice. Are there any other Model A guys in your area. If so maybe another set of eyes and some outside help or analysis may be of help .
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I can shift thru the gears if the car ain't moving, but that's no fun. I hear what you are saying about straight cut gears, but this is ridiculous. I changed my driving habit today. I kept the engine at idle, put in first let out the clutch, still at idle, got rolling, and shifted to second. Kept it at idle, rolling, shifted to third. Then I gave it gas. Seemed to work ok that way.
 
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