Miller / Cragar Date Code? Help

S

Stoker32

Junior Member
We're building a 28 Roadster with an original Miller / Cragar OHV conversion. It's a B Block, and when we got it it had the original Cragar Valve cover on it.

Is there any way to tell what year it was made? I see there's some casting #'s on the outside and some markings under the cover. There's also a 1947 stamped under the cover. Is that the manufacturer date or a re-build date?

Any help is appreciated. Here's a pic.

Thanks in advance
 

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Information from The Miller Dynasty, by Mark Dees 1993-

Harry Miller had Leo Goossen design heads for the Model A in 1929, a hi-comp flathead, the eight valve overhead and a DOHC head. Miller's business ventures at the time were associated with the Schofield Corporation (maybe due to Harry's muddled financial situation? My comment, not Dees) but things never went well and eventually Harry regained some equipment, tooling and patterns and some cash. The tooling and patterns for the Model A heads had been sold in the Schofield bankruptcy proceedings for $40,000 to Harlan Fengler, president of the Cragar Corporation. Craney Gartz, heir to the Crane Plumbing Corporation was the principal behind Cragar. When Cragar began to produce heads in 1931 they changed the left side of the head. Goossen's design had the left side cast vertical and Cragar produced heads are slightly slanted inward. Original Miller-Schofields are rare, produced for less than one year.
George Wight of Bell Auto Parts revamped the design and placed the intake ports on the left side at the same time enlarging them. Most agree that the larger ports were more a detriment than a benefit. Wight also reduced combustion chamber volume but he shrouded the valves in doing that. No mention was made by Dees as to when Wight introduced his "Improved Cragar".

The above is not verbatim, I just hit the high points of the story. My post was the long way around to providing a possible date of manufacture. I would imagine there might have been reproductions produced too, anybody know by who and when?
 
It's for sure an early, original Head. the engine/head came to us untouched since it was rebuilt by a local guy in the early 1950's. It was never fired since. we went over it and fixed a few issues and now its almost to fire.

Like I said, there is a stamped date of 1947 under the valve cover. I would just like to know if that's a manufacturer stamp or did some one do that upon a rebuild. Can you get any info from the casting # on the outside?

In the end the date doesn't matter. the car is being built as a pre-war lakes car, to compete for AMBR in January, and it will for sure pass for that when done. This is more for my own info.
 
Actually, from what I just found, the 1947 cant be a manufacturer date. looks like they went to a cross-flow style (intake on drivers side) after 1935. Anybody know if thats correct?
 
Yes, sounds correct. Bell Auto heads had the intake ports switched to the driver's side as I mentioned in my above post. Only info Dees didn't mention was when that happened; that 1935 date could be right, I have no info either way.
If the driver's side is not perpendicular to the deck then it's a Cragar produced between 1931 and 1935 according to your mention of the '35 date, otherwise it could be an original Miller-Schofield with a Cragar valve cover on it.
 
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'the above is not verbatim', nor is it accurate .

The 'slope head' was first attempt and head made. It was called this for the obvious slope inward from bottom to top on the plug side. Miller name was on this first slopehead rocker box. Scholfield was next in the mix with Miller and Miller/Schofield names were on that rocker box. After Schofield, Craney Gartz (Cragar) name was on rocker box. When Miller/Schofield parted ways, Miller was not paid (royalties ?) for use of his name, thus he would no longer authorize use of his name on rocker box.
Schofield produced the first change from slopeside head, a smart move by designer Goosen....to improve water jacket design on plug side. First of this kind is a Schofield OHV Head.
This all happen in a VERY SHORT TIME. Then tooling went to George Wright. However, as I understand the tooling issue, by this time, there were SEVERAL patterns/tooling spread around.

Somewhere in all this there is a lesson to be learned, maybe several, as this head venture went belly up quickly for all of these guys , financially / legally ?

A guy in Denver acquired one such set of patterns/tooling attempted to manfacture similar OHV Denver Head. He also went belly up financially and died a pauper as the story goes. Because of the date stamping, I'm guessing that this is likely a Denver head, right era ?

NONE of the original such heads that I've ever owned and/or seen have had any dating. I have not seen Denver head, so thinking that you may have one of those, as I understand that this head was latest ...40s/50s ?


These early heads (Miller/Schofield/Cragar) can definitely be identified...but NOT by the rocker box cover alone. Why, because there were MANY different ones made. Some while the maker made with his name, and many without any name , because they were inbetweeners, that is inbetween ownership when rocker boxes were necessary but disputes over or transferring of rights, etc.. As said the first box with only MILLER in huge box letters.

The actual Schofield then Cragar heads (without rocker box) can to identified positively, by marking on casting. I have an original Schofield. I also have several plain unmarked rocker boxes. If anyone has a rocker box with name Schofield name..ALONE (preferred) or with Miller name and Schofield name, I'd like to hear from you (PM):). Rocker box markings ( or no markings)show who made it and within what time period.
Just going from an ever fading memory......:(
 
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OK, so Miller had the slop toward the block? Cragar was Flat?

Here's some pics.

The info is great. Thanks
 

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My quick read of the info caused me to transpose the events as they in fact happened. Hardtimes is correct, as is the Dees book. The original M-S head was slanted inward, Cragar did change the casting in 1931.
 
Stoker32 said:
OK, so Miller had the slop toward the block? Cragar was Flat?

Here's some pics.

The info is great. Thanks
Click to expand...

Hey Stoker,
SLOPE sided, hot slop , just saying :D!

Give me Two pictures to look at:
Looking down on top of head....both sides complete front to back , with rocker box left on or off if you happen to have it off is ok.
The # that you show, was part/parcel of ALL such heads (Scholfield/Cragar).

However, Cragar (apparently/legally ?) had to ADD a marking to differentiate his head from Schofield....that's what I'm looking for.
 
hardtimes said:
Hey Stoker,
SLOPE sided, hot slop , just saying :D!

Give me Two pictures to look at:
Looking down on top of head....both sides complete front to back , with rocker box left on or off if you happen to have it off is ok.
The # that you show, was part/parcel of ALL such heads (Scholfield/Cragar).

However, Cragar (apparently/legally ?) had to ADD a marking to differentiate his head from Schofield....that's what I'm looking for.
Click to expand...

These work? Also, you mentioned another mark. I took a pic under the cover and with the 1947 stamp there is a hash type stamp. Mean anything?
 

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Stoker32 said:
These work? Also, you mentioned another mark. I took a pic under the cover and with the 1947 stamp there is a hash type stamp. Mean anything?
Click to expand...

Hey Stoker,
Ha, you got my interest now ! What the heck do you have there :D
Nice clear pics, so no mistaking what's there and/or not there to be seen , eh ?

I DO NOT see any NI CR (NICHOL/CHROMIUM) on this head ...at all ? Am I missing seeing that...I have bad eyes ;)
If those letters are MISSING from head , please confirm that ?

The hash (#) mark and the date is a first for me. This 'date' being stamped in, as opposed to being part of casting process, indicates to me that this is an 'aftermarket' model. If the NI CR is also missing, who knows from what source this may have originated :confused:

And, the marking that I'm looking for is not there ! Nor is the NICR.

I have to say, that from several sources who say that there were MANY after market makers of this head , that is, mimicking Scholfield/Cragar original OHV Heads. I do not know the fact/truth of this and doubt that there were...'MANY'. However, stuff happens.
 
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Stoker32 said:
Actually, from what I just found, the 1947 cant be a manufacturer date. looks like they went to a cross-flow style (intake on drivers side) after 1935. Anybody know if thats correct?
Click to expand...

Hey Stoker,
If these pics come thru, this is a rebuilt original 1930 Scholfield.
Notice details of markings just outside of rocker box. Notice the same # and the NI CR

This rock box is but one of the many that were made/exist. It calls for high test fuel and high compression plugs...ha, I guess that 6.5:1 was high cr then, eh ?
This rocker box is evidence that miller / scholfield had made their split...as NO miller name..an inbetweener !
 

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I have a miller head with the NICR marking. It has a miller carburetor and intake manifold. The rocker box has Miller Hi Speed head Los Angeles This head designed for Anti Knock Fuel and High Compression Plugs. The updraft intake is aluminum and the Miller Carburetor has a 4 or 5 jet system and a rotating venturi. Does anyone else have such a carb, or information on adjusting it? I also picked up a plain rocker box cover on EBay some years ago.
 
hardtimes said:
Hey Stoker,
Ha, you got my interest now ! What the heck do you have there :D
Nice clear pics, so no mistaking what's there and/or not there to be seen , eh ?

I DO NOT see any NI CR (NICHOL/CHROMIUM) on this head ...at all ? Am I missing seeing that...I have bad eyes ;)
If those letters are MISSING from head , please confirm that ?

The hash (#) mark and the date is a first for me. This 'date' being stamped in, as opposed to being part of casting process, indicates to me that this is an 'aftermarket' model. If the NI CR is also missing, who knows from what source this may have originated :confused:

And, the marking that I'm looking for is not there ! Nor is the NICR.

I have to say, that from several sources who say that there were MANY after market makers of this head , that is, mimicking Scholfield/Cragar original OHV Heads. I do not know the fact/truth of this and doubt that there were...'MANY'. However, stuff happens.
Click to expand...

There were no NI CR casted in that location.
 
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