MIG Welding on my '40

[40fordpu]

Happy New Year to all. Getting back into the swing of things and the holiday season has me interested in giving....to myself this time. I am planning on buying a MIG welder. I WAS TOLD THAT THE MIG SETUP IS BEST FOR SOMEONE WHO IS INEXPERIENCED AND IS EASIER TO USE FOR THE BODY AND FRAME PARTS...correct me if I am wrong.

My question is two parts. What is the best gas to use with the MIG? (Do you have to use gas???) And what brands of welders have you guys had good luck with out there?

Thanks for your time guys

 

[jdl]

I use a Lincoln SP135-A mig welder with 75% co2 25% argon (75-25)
works great, nice little welder for the hobbyist. others will chime in with other sugestions.

 

[Kentf1003]

I'm building a 1940 Ford pickup and was faced with the same decision a couple of years ago. I had an acetylene outfit and a Lincoln arc welder. Neither were just right for restoring the pickup body. First I bought a used little mig welder from a friend. It was made by Clarke. He told me that fluxcore rods were all I needed to use (no gas). Well, they worked, sort of. I wasn't pleased with the results or the welder.

Later, I was visiting a relative who had a Lincoln Pro Mig 140 with gas. He showed me some welds he made with it and really gave a testimonial. I purchased one that was on sale at Lowes. He was right. It was perfect. Naturally you have to get used to it. At Tractor Supply you can actually buy the necessary tank (no long term lease). Then you exchange it as needed. I use the #3 blue tank (25% carbon dioxide and 75% argon gas) at a cost of about $42 each fillup. Using the shielding gas definately helps you lay down a smooth weld without the splattering that goes with flexcore wire. You can buy the Lincoln Pro Mig in 120v or 220v I believe. I got the 120 and then made a heavy duty extension for the plug in. It works great. Rather than buying a cart, I built one, welding the sections together as welding practice.

Good luck with your decision.

Pleased in Kentucky, John

 

[Karl Wolf]

There is a place for mig, but on sheet medal it leaves a weld that is harder than sourounding medal... On larger stuff I don't like the penetration-or lack of... It's great for tacking... I like tig but am still learning, it's got a skill set requirement like gas welding, and is a larger investment... Anyhow, you'll get experience- go for the best stuff, Karl

 

[19Fordy]

You will love the MIG welder. You can buy a type of welding wire called Easy Grind which is suppose to be softer, less brittle and easier to work with than conventional MIG wire. Use thinner wire for sheet metal and .035 for frames, etc. Cheaper to buy you own tanks in the long run as there is no rental fee.

 

[ford1]

lincoln is a good welder butmiller is a lot better, for the biggest reason is it does not have preset amp setting, it has an infinite amp adjustment that you can change, up or down, as you weld, the 120v is the best all around welder because for one its cheaper than the 220v, second you can take it any place you want and plug it in. the 220 welds 1/4" metal. the 120v welds 3/16" metal, a 1/16" dfference , for the incovience and price the 220v doesnt make sense, hobart is made my miller also, a good welder but the sameproblem with amp settings, they are pre set, buy an auto darking helment, you will be glad you did, flux wire is fine for out side on crude projects, its smokey just like stick welder, but be aware you cant use gas outside when its windy, disperses the shielding gas and all it will do is sputter and splatter, just things to think about when you put your money out for a welder, harbor freight welders, clarke and century welders are not the way to go

 

[PeteVS]

I bought a Miller 175 (240V MIG machine) and I'm happy with it. The 240V is a little bit of a pain, but I only want to buy a welder once and people I've talked to say that most people who start with a small welder almost immediately want to trade up. I've also been taking welding classes at our county Vo-Tech high school adult education sessions. That's worthwhile. I wouldn't recommend doing any kind of "structural" welding without having some instruction under your belt. I have an autodarkening helmet, but it doesn't always seem to trigger when it should. Wound up with a fixed darkness helmet with the big lens. It's easy enough to flip it down when you're ready to weld and It works well with my bifocal SAFETY glasses. Good luck.

 

[Ronnie]

This will do all you want with "75/25" co2 argon. "No" straight co2 on steel.

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/product.php?model=M00245

You will have lots of fun with it. It does all voltages by itself no wiring to change and good warranty.This machine is plug and play. Mig is easy to learn not anywhere the finesse you with get with tig but, tig is a lot more money and learning curve is a little harder and much slower.. Most all body shops are mig only. I hope this helps.

Ronnie

 

[Steel 35]

Pete hits it on the head........ as far as color, get what you like. but you should be looking at one of three brands.

(Do you have to use gas???) Yes

120 = body; And you may need 20 amp outlets!
240 = body + Frame

PS: Certified welder.

 

[ford1]

seeing that most frames are less than 1/4" thick, the 120 will do just fine

 

[G.M.]

The amperage on a MIG welder is controled by the size of the wire and the speed the wire is feed. If you had .030 wire set at 200 inches of wire per minute (just an example) and welded you may see 110 amps. If you changed NOTHING but the wire to .035 you may have 150 amps and if you went to 1/8th inch maybe 350 amps. There is no amperage control knob on a MIG welder only the voltage is controled. The surface area of the wire on the work determines the amperage either by the size of the wire or the speed it is feed. As the amperage is increased by the speed or wire size the voltage knob must be increased to burn the wire properly. To much or to large of wire will just stub on the work if there is not enough voltage. To much voltage for the size or amount of wire being feed will make a long arc between the work and contact tip and burn the wire to the end of the tip. There are 3 or 4 types of MIG welding. The one used on body or frame work is called "short arc". This would be in the 40 to 200 amp range and the wire feed and voltage are coorinated to a setting that sounds like a mad bumble bee. The wire strikes the work and with this type of welder the amperage go's way up and explodes, a small ball is formed as the wire strikes the work and deposited, burns off and another ball is formed and deposited. There is also spray transfer which can be used on heavier steel. You can't get a good spray transfer with the C-25 gas. Argon with 2 to 5% oxygen is used on heavy steel. The oxygen controls the under cut on the edges of the plate being welded, without oxygen straight argon will leave an undercut on toe or both sides of the weld. Spray tranfer is used on aluminum over about 1/8" thick with straight argon. The nozzle of the gun is held about 3/4 to 1" from the work the nozzle is pushed toward the direction of travel and the the arc voltage adjusted in the 24 to 28 volt range while welding depending on the size of the wire and the wire feed speed. The voltage is adjusted so the wire burns off a steady rate about 1/2" from the work. This sprays the moltant aluminum on the work. If aluminum is applyed by the short arc method the weld is cold looking and brittle because the aluminum solidifies to fast and don't let it flow also trapping impurities in the weld leaving a large grain structure. Also when welding aluminum if the gun is drug in the direction of travel the gas hits the weld as it is deposited and causes a dark smoke covered welded area. Even with a perfect puddled MIG weld on aluminum the grain structure of the weld is large and if the finished product is anodized the weld area will be dark because the anodize material penitraits the weld. TIG welding has very little discoloring because the weld is puddled and has a smaller grain structure. Also a 220 MIG welder is smoother running because is is not subject to the voltage drop like a 110 machine. Any slight voltage variation effects the arc. 110 welders should be plugged into a receptical near the breaker panel and a heavy cord used. G.M.

One thing I failed to mention is the buzzing sound you hear in short arc welding is the freqency of the small ball of metal being transferred. If the voltage is a little high the buzz slows and can get to the point you can see the ball being transferred, this is called globular transfer. If the voltage gets to low the ball stubs the work. You can tune the weld by the sound once you get a little feel for it.

 

[Craig CT]

Hi 40fordpu; I have a Lincoln SP 175 Plus, run CO2 and Argon, it's a good machine. I tried flux core on a friend's welder and think it's junk. .023, 70 series, easy grind wire should work fine for your body work. If you buy a welder post again before you start. Good luck, Craig.

 

[sky1928]

40fordpu,
There is a lot of good advice in this forum. Mytwo cents...TIG with 100% Argon is best for sheet metal and controlled welding. MIG with 75% CO2 25% Argon for structural and heavy welding is good. Technique, rod(wire) type and metal type are also important for welding with either type.
There is a lot of good information on the web and a good welding supply house will provide good advice for your application or needs.
Best,
Paul

 

[wiretwister]

I love my Miller Blue Box. I also use the 25 - 75 mix.
There can not be anybody as in-experienced as me.
I took a welding course at the local Tech School after I bought the Miller. That Helped but, the best training is Practice and more practice.

 

[Frank The Plumber]

Do a search for welding techniques on google, there are a ton of videos and hints to help you learn good technique, you could easily spend a week or two watching weld vids of some type or another. Break it into all the different types as well.

 

[Marvin/TN]

I have an Auto Darking helmet that can be adjusted as to the shade, how quick it reacts, and how long it stays dark after you finish, best thing to come along since sliced bread. I think I paid about $150.00 for it. My brother a certified welder/pipe fitter didn't think he would like an auto darking helmet until he did some welding for a friend on a race car. He paid about $350.00 for his. As far as the flip up lens,or noding your head, think about when you are under a car or something like that, kinda hard to do sometimes. I know we are talking about old cars here but new cars usually require a mig welder to be used with the high strength/low alloy steel. I have been doing collision repair since 3 June 1966 and have seen a lot of changes in the way cars are repaired from different welding technics to the use of structional adhesives. With the new steels you can change the properties of it with improper welding equiptment and procedures. I have a Lenco 225 MIG. As far as expensive lease on gas bottles I think most if not all welding supply places have customer owned bottles that can be filled anywhere. As for the gas I use a Tri Mix of mostly Argon (largest amount), CO2, and 2% Oxy. The Oxy is supposed to help make a flatter weld.

 

[wga]

Take a class at your local community college, or other type of training. It will pay off in the quality of work. Especially if you do any frame work.

 

[itslow]

lincoln is a good welder butmiller is a lot better, for the biggest reason is it does not have preset amp setting, it has an infinite amp adjustment that you can change, up or down, as you weld...

That's funny, 'cuz the Lincoln out in the garage has continuous controls. You'll find that those features are model dependent in both brands.

...the 120v is the best all around welder because for one its cheaper than the 220v, second you can take it any place you want and plug it in. the 220 welds 1/4" metal. the 120v welds 3/16" metal, a 1/16" dfference , for the incovience and price the 220v doesnt make sense...

They both have their place. For basic use, the 110V units are fine, and have greater portability, but for heavier-duty use, the 230V units are better suited. The larger units, with their increased amperages, have no problem welding thicker plate. Not that such thicknesses are commonly used in automotive work, but it is nice to have the capability when needed.

In our shop, we have one of each - a 110V and a 230V - and a TIG. For most situations I use the TIG, unless I only need something quick and dirty, in which case I'll use a MIG since it takes less time to set-up.

...Most all body shops are mig only...

Any shop that is serious about doing high quality "body" work will be doing it with a TIG instead of a MIG. I'd bet that most shops that specialize in high quality chassis work predominately use TIG, too. I'm, of course, discounting places that cater towards collision repair where they try to get cars in and out as fast as possible.


Personally, I'd step up and buy a TIG first. Yes, it has a slightly steeper learning curve and is more expensive, but I think it's a better suited process for most automotive restoration work.

When it comes to brands; both the red and the blue are good ones. They each have their pluses and minuses. Tough to go wrong with either one. Don't count out some of the other brands (ThermalArc, ESAB, etc), either.

 

[fourtydlx]

What co do you buy your easy grind from ,Hard to find in cal. thanks les

 

[JM 35 Sedan]

Six years ago I bought a Millermatic 210 (220/240V), wire feed, mig welder. Prior to that, I had never done any welding with stick, mig or tig welders. I did have some experience with gas welding. After reading some books on welding, talking to some experienced welders, and doing some practice welding with my Millermatic, I was able to do the welds in the attached pictures while fabricating a new rear cross member for my traditional hot rod. Probably some of the professional welders who post here will think this looks like the work of an amateur (and it is), but I was pretty pleased that I could do welds that looked and tested as good as these.
Also, I should note that several years ago on the old Fordbarn there was a thread asking how one should go about selecting a welder for working on old cars. I posted info on the Miller welder that I had bought. One of the well known flathead engine builders from the south east area of the US, also claiming to be pro welder, who posted regularly on the old Barn, and sometimes here on the new Barn, said that the Miller welders would be his last choice in welders to buy for his shop. I asked him to post the names of the welders he used in his shop and the funny thing was one of the name brands he mentioned was actually made by Miller. Maybe he will jump in here on this thread and add his latest thinking/wisdom on welders.