MAFCA & MARC Poll

Should MAFCA & MARC Merge?

  • Yes

    Votes: 94 61.4%

  • No

    Votes: 59 38.6%
  • Total voters
    153
  • Poll closed .
Fred,

With a majority of folks here in favor of it, why do you say it "AIN'T going to happen"?

I certainly don't expect it to happen soon. I don't think it will happen easily, but if this group is a representative sample of the members of both MAFCA and MARC, why do you not think that the boards of both clubs would not see it as a good idea to explore?
 
Tim: Being a member of MAFCA since 1964, and Marc for many years, I would say that both the mergers you suggest are highly unlikely. There was one "A" national club once upon a time, politics, location, squabbles, what ever, caused the creation of the second. Just my thoughts re. your possible mergers. Jim...
 
I think you should ask how many MARC members are in favor or against and then how many MAFCA members are in favor or against. It could be that a large majority of one club won't want any merger where the other one would like a merger. There had to be a reason why a second club was started in the first place and maybe that reason is still valid. Eh?
 
I think the straw poll gives the answer...by a 2:1 majority the readers here seem to want a merger.

I think the clubs should look into it.

IMHO

Dennis L Oberer
Green Bay WI
 
Tom from Drippin' said:
There should have been a "no opinion" box.
That's where I would vote.
Click to expand...

I started a poll with additional questions such as which club to you beling to now and do you want the merger, no club and do you want a meger. It just grew and when I started to post it I thought of more qiestions so I just gave up.

In a perfect world the two clubs would see this and then they would ask the additional questions to see what the members want. I have read that there are basic differences between the two clubs but even asking what they are I have read nothing.

It is a livley debate though, with no personal attacks and three threads going at once! Hot topic it is!!
 

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Let me try to explain the reason for the split between MARC and MAFCA so everyone understands the situation at that time. It seems that the MARC Director at that time was Bill Hall and he was a bit of a tyrant and wanted to run MARC as a dictatorship and not as a democratic society.
The Model A Restorers Club of Southern California could not adhere to the following:
  • Bill Hall wanted to be a permanent Chairman of the Board and have veto power over all Directors.
  • He wanted his two sons to become members of the Board at their Twenty first Birthdays.
This prompted the California regions to break away and form what we now know as MAFCA. It seems the attitude of one person (Bill Hall) can have such an effect on our two great clubs that this type of action became necessary. (at least it did at that time, I do not believe this could happen again in either club)
I have letters explaining this that I will be sending to both boards in the near future so everyone knows the truth in what happened In October of 1957.
I hope this helps to clarify and understand the reasons "why" this action took place.
I am a memeber of both clubs and enjoy both magazines and have enjoyed the hobby since 1962. I hope to be able to continue to enjoy our great hobby for many years to come.
Let's enjoy,
Ken:D
 
WOW, I'm sure glad my name is not Mr. Wm. 'Bill' Hall around here!!
ROFL.gif
Also glad I'm not his son wanting to run for a Board position either!!




Dennis, while I realize that nearly twice as many people in this particular poll have voted to merge the clubs, is this an accurate sampling of the entire membership of both clubs?? In other words, if there are a total of 10,000 members between both National clubs, does 120 people who have voted here give a proper representation of the entire membership's feelings? Matter of fact, is the 120+ that have voted all a member of either club?

I truly cannot believe people would be so naive to say they would vote for something just off of a "whim" without know what the facts of the merge would be. Maybe it is just me, but I don't change jobs, neighborhoods, banks, or vendors, ...or many things like that without knowing the actual facts and what would be different if I opted for the change.

Mike, I think the reason why the perceived differences between the clubs NOW (especially after Ken commented) seems so petty to many could be much akin to why many of buy their gasoline from the same station. I am guessing I buy from the one I do because I like the people inside and how convenient it is to me. Their gas is probably not any better than the station across the street, and I'm sure that station across the street would love to have my business. Bottom line is I don't have a good enough reason to bother with soliciting additional business for the station I do trade at. Maybe in the case of the club I belong to, I know people at the office and the magazine so it is convenience too. Maybe it is also the perception I have for what they believe in and how they do 'things' that make me be a member.

The one thing that does cross my mind is, if there was "Merger Talks" between the two clubs, just how many 'fights', or political mudslinging, public belittling, or ordinary people getting hurt, division amongst friends, ...or hobbyist driven away from the hobby because their side "did not win" do you suppose would come about just because of a merge?? Would it really be worth it? Not to me when you think about all the strife that likely ensued during the last split in 1957.

.
 
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Ken,

Thanks for the information. I find it amazing that the club did not have any bylaws or constitution at that time that would be sufficient to solve the problem.

So what eventually happened to Mr. Hall?

I think that the world has changed a lot in the over 50 years since the split. I personally feel that it is time to see the two clubs merged. I realize that it will not be an easy task, but I think that it would be best for the hobby. It will take a lot of folks who are willing to do what is best instead of what is personally comfortable or easy.
 
I think we would have to hear from each club leaders as to what a
merged or combined club would be like .
Then I think we could voice our opinon of likes and dislikes.
 
Brent,

I think that the Board of Directors for both clubs should study the issue, develop a potential plan for a merger, and put it to a vote of both club's membership. I think that if a viable plan were presented, it would likely be approved by approximately two thirds of the membership of both clubs. It could be the best thing to happen to the Model A Hobby in a long time. It would be quite possible to have more events over a greater geographical area. I would welcome National Model A Club Meets and Tours and other Events each year that were not mostly on just one side of the country.
 
MCHinson said:
I personally feel that it is time to see the two clubs merged. I realize that it will not be an easy task, but I think that it would be best for the hobby.
Click to expand...

Why do you feel that way, ...exactly??

Exactly what ( be specific) would change after a merge that would make the hobby "better"?? Maybe you could list five (5) valid (i.e.: factual or provable) reasons why it would be BETTER for the hobby, ...and five (5) reasons why it is NOT working in its present state.

BETTER:
1)
2)
3)
4)
5)

PROBLEMS:
1)
2)
3)
4)
5)


.
 
MCHinson said:
Brent,

I think that the Board of Directors for both clubs should study the issue, develop a potential plan for a merger, and put it to a vote of both club's membership. I think that if a viable plan were presented, it would likely be approved by approximately two thirds of the membership of both clubs. It could be the best thing to happen to the Model A Hobby in a long time. It would be quite possible to have more events over a greater geographical area. I would welcome National Model A Club Meets and Tours and other Events each year that were not mostly on just one side of the country.
Click to expand...


Having both Club's B.o.D. study their own "issues" is kinda like having the proverbial Fox guard the Henhouse! In all honesty, the board for each club likely views their present direction and goals as being 'on-track' for what they want their club to do. If they see something "the other club" is doing, then they are free to impliment it and modify that idea to meet their needs. Either club right now could add additional Tours or Meets to their current schedule if they feel like there is a desire. It would NOT require a merger to add these additional venues.
 
I am not so sure a merger is what would be "best".
Right now we have two great clubs both of which work extremely hard to support our hobby in so many different ways it is incredible. Most MARC meets are held in the east and most MAFCA meets are held in the West. Most regions come together locally and are very friendly with each other. There is a friendly competition between the two clubs that inspires each club to want to do better than the other. Kind of a "one upmanship" thing that i personally think is very healthy and keeps each club on it's toes for the benefit of the memberships. Wow, I do not think it gets better than that! I am a member of both clubs and I get a magazine each month because of it. both magazines are world class and I am enjoying it. My only problem is trying to get to all the meets that these two clubs put together for us. Life is Good!
Let us not be so negative and look at the bright side of life,
IMHO,
Ken
 
Thank you Ken for the history of the split. Perhaps if the two clubs were able to participate in more events together (MARC/MAFCA or MAFCA/MARC), there would not be such friction between the two clubs. Thank you to members and volunteers of BOTH groups for continuing to enhance the hobby.
 
First, I am not the guy who suggested this idea. Blame the guy who asked what the clubs could do or the guy who first said Merge the clubs.

I do agree that it would be worth studying. From those that I have talked with, and the poll responses here, I think that a viable merger plan would be approved by the membership.

Off the top of my head with very little thought, I will attempt to throw out some potential answers to your question. I am sure there are better answers that can be developed with a well thought out study by the two clubs.
BETTER:
1) Cost Savings by not having two headquarters
2) Simplicity... less confusion among potential members "which do I join?"
3) Opportunity to develop a really nationwide club with events held "ALL" over the country.
4) Less bad publicity from one "upmanship" efforts by one club or the other
5) The positive effects of everyone working together to further the hobby instead of trying to prove "our" club is better.

PROBLEMS:
1) Egos
2) Living in the past
3) Some real estate would need to be sold... and the market sucks right now.
4) Old grudges
5) We have always done it this way....at least since 1957

Ken, also, please answer my previous question about what happend to Mr. Hall. How long did his dictatorship last? Did it fail initially? I am still curious.
 
Oh I am sorry, But I am not sure what happened to Mr. Hall. I do know he was gone shortly after this all happened because the Illinois region held the Nationals in Lake Forest in 1961 and he was gone by that time. I would have to check the old magazines to see when he abdicated his throne.
I still think it is important we focus on the positives and I am not aware of any friction between the two clubs at the present time. Both clubs and both Boards are working for the membership to make our hobby better. Lots of dedicated people and lots of good office staff. I am thankful we have all of them!
If anyone feels there is a problem I suggest they throw their name in the hat and run for office as this is the only way you will feel the pain they do! I am referring to both clubs of course.
I almost feel like their is only one club only a division on the west coast and a division on the east coast. Kind of like a company with two offices to better serve the country. It cost me $78. to join and I get a magazine each month! each with it's own view points. I can select which meets I can go to and enjoy all of it! I just wish that left coast was a little closer cuz I would love to go on those tours in california and Montana etc. those are some beautiful country tours.
That is why I am looking forward to San Diego so much WOW, this hobby is great!!!!!!
When some one dies in our hobby do we ask if they were a MARC or MAFCA mmeber? NO! We know they were a Model A Ford Fan and we grieve for their passing as we know we will miss them.
Don't forget to sign up for the next election in your club!
Ken:D:D:D
 
I agree 110% Ken with both of your last two posts.


As I view the logistics of a possible merge, I am still baffled at what could be gained. I read where many say they would want to have a monthly magazine if they merged. That's a cool idea but wouldn't the costs to do that double over what we are presently spending on the magazine? Therefore instead of paying $40 annually for dues, ...it goes to $75 a year dues? THAT will cause some heartburn for many potential & present members who only choose to be members of one club!!

Some say we would only need ½ the paid staff positions to run the office if we had a merge but realistically, it takes what personnel both clubs currently employ to properly serve their members, ...and so while the merge may drop some people who are dual members, that personnel cost would likely only drop only by a small proportion too?? So we are back to the same basic costs and again, the new annual national club dues of $75.00 (+) for each member. If any present members drop out due to the fee increase, then what have we gained?

Now with regard to having a monthly magazine, the advertising which carries the Lion's share of the costs of a magazine (or at least a lot of the cost from what I am told) would not necessarily double expotentially so there would likely be some loss in revenue from advertising. I'm thinking it would still take the same amount of people to produce one monthly magazine as it currently takes to do both club's bi-monthly magazines, so is there really any cost savings in this area derived from a merge.

Since the B.o.D. positions nor the elected positions actual a paid position, we really would not save any costs there with a merge would we? If we amortized each of the Club's liability insurance, would the rate drop enough to be a savings worth noting? In other words, if it dropped by ¼ (because it is based on membership total and exposure), and the total amount of the premium is $10k annually (hypothetical numbers) it would drop by $2,500.00, which in a 10,000 member club would be a savings of about twenty five cents per member ( 25¢ )!!

I guess I could go on and view the negative aspects but when I heed his advice and look at the positives that would come from a merge, I feel things start looking pretty good as they are!!

.
 
Ken Ehrenhofer said:
I almost feel like their is only one club only a division on the west coast and a division on the east coast. Kind of like a company with two offices to better serve the country. Ken
Click to expand...

I almost feel like there is one club that mostly focuses on the West Coast. Another club that tries to be a national club but mostly covers the Central US, and that both of them are way too far from me in Southeastern NC, but I am a member of both. So far, in over 15 years, I have only been able to "attend" club events by reading about them in a magazine.

I wish there WERE only ONE Club, and would prefer that it had a Western Division, A Central Division, and an Eastern Division all working together to put on great events for everybody to enjoy.
 
I am sorry to hear that in the last 15 years you have not been able to attend any of the East Coast meets. I know we attended a fantastic meet for MARC in Willaimsburg VA in 2008. In addition MARC held a National Tour in Charlottsville, VA. in 2009 with over 250 members in attendance.
MARC also had a membership meet in Marrietta Ga. (Atlanta) in 2009 and a membership meeting in Lionville a in 2008. MAFCA held a recent Natioanl meet in Boston that was a fantastic meet also.Since then MARC has invited you to see the hidden tresures of Indaiana and those who attended the French Lick meet know what I am taking about.
This coming spring in 2011 MARC is hosting an event in St Augustine Florida and it looks like it will be another fantastic show and then of course San Diego. I believe the MAFCA Natioanl is going to be in upper Michigan in the next couple years.
I think you missed some of the best Model A meets in your back yard:
Williamsburg
Charlottsville
Marrietta
Boston
Lionville,PA
I am sorry to hear that but i look forward to seeing you in St. Augustine in the spring,
Ken:D
 
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