Low Compression

[Ronnie]

Just to be clear here, you don't need the "dedicated" (1.000") pilot to do any valve/seat work, we do have the correct pilots here but don't use them at all.

You simply use an 8BA guide along with any "conventional" 11/32" pilot, this setup works fine. If necessary it's easy to make the (1-piece) OEM guide a snug fit in the casting!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. I had also recommended (to Joe) that a slightly larger valve might really be helpful in getting into a better location on the seat, an area that may not have all that corrosion. Something along the lines of a Ford truck may "fit the bill"?? There is a one that measures 1.560" with the right length. If this works it wouldn't be necessary (maybe) to "sink" the valve way deep!

The pilot is actually 1 1/32" and no you don't need them to get the job done I haven't used mine in years. I was only responding to the posts from some that haven't done this job but are offering answers that are not really correct One of the easiest ways for him is to stick the guide in there with green loctite and let it cure then handle it like a normal valve job.This requires a different install assy but is easily done.I glue serviceable bronze guides (just like yours machined for pos seals)in the block all the time but the engine is clean and on an engine stand and not in the car.Old Ron knurls the outside for a tighter fit and that works also.When glued in they will produce a acceptable runout that is almost impossible it achieve when the large pilot is used and a guide installed when seat work is done. Bin there tried that 30 years ago.In reality he should just patch it up and that will be it.All this work for 1 cylinder is a time eater only good if you consider the time is no value.

R

 

[jrvariel48]

I've been in contact with Neway and they told me the pilot does not go into the guide bore. You install the valve guide and the pilot goes into the guide where the valve rides. It has a .0007" taper for a tight fit. The cutting is done by hand. They recommend the solid pilots as they are stiffer than the adjustable pilots. The entire set up with the pilot, wrench, 45 degree cutter with case and shipping is under $200.00.
This sounds pretty good to me.
What do you think??

 

[jrvariel48]

He engine is a 59L truck engine factory relieved, the seats look pretty ruff, look like they will grind alright, grind the valves or new ones, grind the valve stems for clearance or adjustable lifters, engine will be all right to haul gravel. Walt

Hi Walt thanks for commenting. Is it ok to install an adjustable lifter in that location while all the others are non adjustable? I ask because I don't know the answer. Just wondering if it's ok.
Thank,
Joe

 

[jrvariel48]

How bad can the engine be with comp in 6 cylinders at 110lbs and one at 85 lbs.i would take a look at the 85lb cyl and grind the seat on the bad cyl. Phil

Trainguy the lowest cylinder I have is 100 lbs & I totally agree with you!

 

[jrvariel48]

Just to be clear here, you don't need the "dedicated" (1.000") pilot to do any valve/seat work, we do have the correct pilots here but don't use them at all.

You simply use an 8BA guide along with any "conventional" 11/32" pilot, this setup works fine. If necessary it's easy to make the (1-piece) OEM guide a snug fit in the casting!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. I had also recommended (to Joe) that a slightly larger valve might really be helpful in getting into a better location on the seat, an area that may not have all that corrosion. Something along the lines of a Ford truck may "fit the bill"?? There is a one that measures 1.560" with the right length. If this works it wouldn't be necessary (maybe) to "sink" the valve way deep!

Hey Gary,
Always great to hear from you! Would you be interested in putting a complete valve set up together for me for this particular valve including an adjustable lifter?
Thanks,
joe

 

[tubman]

Thanks Gary for bringing some sanity to this thead.

 

[GOSFAST]

Hey Gary,
Always great to hear from you! Would you be interested in putting a complete valve set up together for me for this particular valve including an adjustable lifter?
Thanks,
joe

Hi Joe, not a problem, just let me know what you need! Just curious but what size are the pilot "tops" with the Neway setup?? Should be something around .375", .437", etc! Before you order any pilots get that dimension! I have a specific reason for asking.

Thanks Gary for bringing some sanity to this thead.

No problem, glad to help, I am sort of familiar with Joe's dilemma!

(Add) Off-topic some, but with respect to the pilots, the "solid" 1-piece's are reasonably rigid, but when you are looking at the type of work we normally are involved with over here we absolutely need them in "carbide". These have been available for some time now but are extremely expensive. They will not "flex" under any circumstances.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Joe, what they said about the "solid" pilot and using it in an OEM (1-piece) guide is exactly correct. The "expandable" pilots are flimsy at best!

 

[Ronnie]

I've been in contact with Neway and they told me the pilot does not go into the guide bore. You install the valve guide and the pilot goes into the guide where the valve rides. It has a .0007" taper for a tight fit. The cutting is done by hand. They recommend the solid pilots as they are stiffer than the adjustable pilots. The entire set up with the pilot, wrench, 45 degree cutter with case and shipping is under $200.00.
This sounds pretty good to me.
What do you think??

To put the sanity back here are the pilots that fit the guide bore,
The reason new way suggest the guide in the hole is because the pilots aren't produced anymore. How do you think the valve jobs were done way back when when Sioux and snap on and black and decker were still in business? These were made with .375" tops .385" tops and .437" tops. Just sayin
You still need to determine what system you are purchasing to match hub diameter with pilot top size. What size is your buddies system?
You may not have to buy anything.

R

 

[jrvariel48]

Hi Joe, not a problem, just let me know what you need! Just curious but what size are the pilot "tops" with the Neway setup?? Should be something around .375", .437", etc! Before you order any pilots get that dimension! I have a specific reason for asking.



No problem, glad to help, I am sort of familiar with Joe's dilemma!

(Add) Off-topic some, but with respect to the pilots, the "solid" 1-piece's are reasonably rigid, but when you are looking at the type of work we normally are involved with over here we absolutely need them in "carbide". These have been available for some time now but are extremely expensive. They will not "flex" under any circumstances.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Joe, what they said about the "solid" pilot and using it in an OEM (1-piece) guide is exactly correct. The "expandable" pilots are flimsy at best!

Gary they said theyll recommend a size based on the valve stem size Does that give you an idea? I had given them the valve stem dimension of .3115. It that the measurement I should be giving them because that's what they asked for. Just want to be certain before I order anything
Thanks, Joe

 

[jrvariel48]

To put the sanity back here are the pilots that fit the guide bore,
The reason new way suggest the guide in the hole is because the pilots aren't produced anymore. How do you think the valve jobs were done way back when when Sioux and snap on and black and decker were still in business? These were made with .375" tops .385" tops and .437" tops. Just sayin
You still need to determine what system you are purchasing to match hub diameter with pilot top size. What size is your buddies system?
You may not have to buy anything.

R

Ronnie, I'll have to find out that size from him. Thank you for explaining that to me!!

 

[Ronnie]

You are more than welcome.That is why I pointed out I glue the guide in and Old Ron also secures the guide in to lessen the number of moving parts and have repeat-ability. All your friend has to have is the 11/32" pilot at the correct oversize size .001" .002" .003" etc to fit your guide that you will use and then you can get it back together after a butt grind. That's my2¢ all used up "LOL" Good luck.

I hope you realize that an 8ba guide and valve retainer and locks are going to have to be used as the .3115" size you quoted is an mushroom valve and can't be be used. I'm not sure of the valve spring combo but someone else will chime in.

R

 

[jrvariel48]

You are more than welcome.That is why I pointed out I glue the guide in and Old Ron also secures the guide in to lessen the number of moving parts and have repeat-ability. All your friend has to have is the 11/32" pilot at the correct oversize size .001" .002" .003" etc to fit your guide that you will use and then you can get it back together after a butt grind. That's my2¢ all used up "LOL" Good luck.

I hope you realize that an 8ba guide and valve retainer and locks are going to have to be used as the .3115" size you quoted is an mushroom valve and can't be be used. I'm not sure of the valve spring combo but someone else will chime in.

R

Great information! I read the 8ba exhaust valve stem is .3405 -.3415
Is this correct??

 

[RobR'35]

I've been reading this thread with great interest.
I'm to new to it all to give experienced advice.
I was wondering tho.... Could this pilot post thing be made up at a machine shop via the measurements u give the shop?

 

[Ronnie]

I've been reading this thread with great interest.
I'm to new to it all to give experienced advice.
I was wondering tho.... Could this pilot post thing be made up at a machine shop via the measurements u give the shop?

Just buy one on eBay there is one there now. The section that goes in the lifter boss is tapered a small amount,and should be ground to duplicate.You will get one for around 50.00 on eBay. There are no $50.00 jobs at a mach shop.

R

 

[RobR'35]

Well.....
Small private shops I'm aware of could and would.
I was just inquiring.
E bay does have a lot of good stuff at reasonable prices.

 

[rotorwrench]

Making a tapered shaft part is more complicated than a straight one. If a person used a finish grinder attachment on a lathe it would still have to be set up for the very slight taper it would need. It's doable for sure but not as easy as you might think.

 

[flatheadmurre]

Making a tapered shaft part is more complicated than a straight one. If a person used a finish grinder attachment on a lathe it would still have to be set up for the very slight taper it would need. It's doable for sure but not as easy as you might think.

Doing it on a lathe you just offset the the support dubb and grind away !
That is being on dubbs...not chuck.

 

[GOSFAST]

It makes no sense to try to locate the "dedicated" pilots for a couple reasons.

First one being the cost, and setting that aside, you would still need to have at least 3 of these to have the "fit" covered.

We have a set of 4, I only have 2 where I am located, but they are also a "select-fit" pilot. They have undersizes AND oversizes the same as conventional pilots. See the photo below, one on the left is 1.0315", the right is 1.032", and there are 2 more we own!

Then one more possible issue, the tops have to correspond to the seat/valve equipment. All our tops are ONLY .437", we set it all up this way for some slightly add'l stability. As I stated earlier here we now use "carbides" mostly.

A conventional pilot costs about $50.00 while a carbide runs about $200.00. These are based on Goodson's prices, AND you still need select fit's in these also! All this pretty much guarantee's a decent fix! All the pilots basically have a .0007" taper built in!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Here's some photos of the "dedicated" pilots, you can see the size variation even on these. Over the years we've figured we needed from -.002" to +.002", this means 5 pilots to cover most stem sizes.

 

[Bored&Stroked]

I think this has been covered - but just to make sure:

1) The 32 - 48 flatheads used split valve guides and 5/16 valve stems (with a mushroom bottom). This is what he has in his block (he has a 59L). He will NOT want to use the guides/valve that he has.

2) The 49-53 flatheads have a solid guide - that use a non-mushroom valve with a 11/32 stem. Since he's trying to just get one seat done and not make a huge project out of this, then he can use ONE of these late guides, one late valve and spring package and probably one adjustable lifter (or a stock one and butt grind) to hopefully repair his setup.

As far as the pilot goes - it depends on the upper pilot size that his cutters and/or stone holders require. There are different sizes based on different manufacturers - .375, .385 and .437. I believe that all the normal Neway stuff uses a .375 pilot (which they can supply).

You'll probably need two cutters (to do it right) - as the seat will be wide as hell IF the current seat can even be used:

► 1.500" diameter, 15°/60° Cutter (NCU-619)
► 1.500" diameter, 31°/46° Cutter (S/NCU-622)

You'll need ONE of the pilots (depending on how tight the new guide is):

► .341", .375" Top Pilot (P-5341N)
► .342", .375" Top Pilot (P-5342N)
► .343", .375" Top Pilot (P-5343N)

And you'll need the T-handle to work the cutter.

Also, consider some fine lapping compound, some die-chem and a lapping tool - so you can validate that the seat is good and is making a nice contact pattern on the new valve.

If the seat will clean up, he might be able to get this done. As some mentioned, might be wise to use a larger diameter valve (even a 1.6") - such that the seat is "moved up". If nothing else, he can always use a 1.6" SBC exhaust valve with an adjustable lifter and a correctly shimmed spring.

PS: Use a shop-vac as you manually cut the seat - to keep as much crap out of the cylinder as possible.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

 

[Ronnie]

Neway build any hub combo you want. Using neway they really don't have to be lapped only verify seat location on the valve with a felt pen.Lapping a good seat only verifies location.The neway will produce that seat.The lapping has been discussed many times before with the felt pen and is a tried and true process. .375" is common to snap on B&D and neway,and a couple more don't recall. Sioux is .385" kwik way is .4375" all this does is made their system proprietary. Now you know why neway build anything you want.They know in most instances cutters are superior to stones and last much longer and no sharpening required. All in all it is a reliable system many shops use it as well as other carbide seat systems.Neway really shines in the small engine world and motorcycles,most use it. The rest of your thoughts are correct as to different cutters and required tooling. That's my 2¢ "LOL"

R