Looking for Paint

D

Dave Covey

Member
Where to buy paint? I want to use a base coat/clear coat but I want original Snowshoe White and Raven Black color. Code E and A.



Thanks
Dave
 
I've heard both good and bad from folks about using TCP Global. They are about the only outfit that attempts to replicate the outdated color codes of the old cars. Snowshoe white was replaced with Colonial white in 1956 model year as far as I know. Dupont & Ditzler didn't list black very often. Black is basically just that no matter what year.


Using two stage paints is always iffy due to the clear having an affect on the final color analysis. I use single stage urethanes due to that. Clear ends up coming off after a number of years in the sun anyway.


Using white hides all sins but black shows everything that may be overlooked in prep. The finish has to be spot on before application.


I go to the local paint store and get their color chips then pick the best approximation. It's either that or have an original part with good finish matched by their mixer guy and hope for the best.
 
Recommendations from an Automotive Finishes Certified Technical Trainer: Look for PBE (Paint, Body, Equipment) stores. The top of the line automotive finishes include PPG, Axalta (formerly Dupont), BASF, Sherwin Williams Automotive, and Sikkens. Most of these manufacturers have a second tier line also (a little less expensive). For solvent borne base coat color I would recommend the 2K (two component) base versus the 1K (single component) basecoat. 2K is better because it becomes insoluble; 1K is more soluble which can affect repairability after the clear coat is applied. Waterborne base coat is popular and has great characteristics however, for a "home shop" application solvent borne may be more forgiving.
There are a variety of clear coat choices. Clear coat types, to name a few, include "high gloss", "production", "spot/panel repair", and "overall/complete". Some are intended for "air dry", others for a baking booth. Like any type of paint finish, the better the foundation, the better the job. I would recommended only using 2K undercoats (2K epoxy followed by 2K urethane). "Pulling the trigger" is the easy part, building the foundation is the hard part. Using the best undercoats are well worth the expense.
There are other products in a refinishing process where other recommendations would be made. Some factors include: What is the substrate (steel, aluminum, fiberglass, plastics, body filler, or an existing finish?). If an existing finish, what type? Soluble or Insoluble? What condition is it in? Not enough space to cover all aspects, so this is just "basic" info.
 
Additional info in regard to rotorwrench post. White can vary all over the board as to hue (redder, yellower, bluer, greener), also "grayer" when black is part of the formula. In the 50s through the 60s GM white was "bluer" than Ford white which was "yellower". When comparing the two, GM looked "white" (the blue was not obvious), but the yellow in the Ford white was obvious, at least when the two were side by side. Black most often is either "yellower" or less yellow, or on the blue side. When these two hue blacks are compared, the bluer black will really look "BLACK", the yellower will look "brown". The difference is only obvious when compared side by side.
Clearcoat does have an effect on the final color, however, in a base/clear formulation, clear coat is part of the matching process. We tend to think of clear as being "water white" but they do have a color (UV filters and light stabilizers add to the "color" of clear) which becomes apparent as more film thickness is applied.
There have been clear coats that have peeled away from the basecoat, mostly due to lack of UV filter agents. The top of the line base/clear systems used by collision repair shops today carry a "life time" warranty; they must perform equal to the OE applied material. Most clear peeling causes are "driver error" such as using the wrong product or an incompatible clear for the system. Its not a good idea to apply clear coat to a finish that was not designed to be clear coated.
Single stage finishes: 2K single stage urethanes are great finishes and work best as solid colors (non metallic). Some top tier single stage finishes have an option of adding clear coat to the ready to spray product, giving more clear for gloss and to protect the pigment. This would only be done in the last coat; coverage must be achieved first! Single stage finishes will look the best and be more durable when applied to stay wet (flow and leveling) plus allowing the clear resin to float over and above the pigment. The pigment doesn't shine; its the clear that provides the shine.
 
Rotorwrench,
TCP's website isn't much help and I dislike talking on the phone because of my hearing. That's why I asked for info. Agree with you on the clear changing the color hue as I have seen clear with a yellow tint. Body work should turn out nice as I din't do all of it..lol


Michael Allen,, Man if I understood all you wrote I could apply for a job,lol..
Body was blasted, then a 4:1 epoxy was sprayed over it, Evercoat filler used, and polyester 4:1 primer over that. Featherfill used during block sanding, So far at least 4 go rounds using various blocks to ensure it is straight. Not by me but by a competent body man. I'm very much an amateur..
I will use the best paints I can find/ So are you recommending I use a single stage with a clear added to it? It will not have any metalic in it.


Thanks


Dave
 
Well, I'm not in Texas, but I think the idea is universal; any auto body repair/paint supply outlet in your area should be able to mix what you need. Just tell them the year and make of car and the name of the colors you want. They all have the formulas for the colors listed in books. What is NOT universal is the manufacturer of paint that particular supply shop carries. One may offer Dupont, whereas the next supplier may offer PPG (Ditzler in the old days).
Methods of mixing are different, and the thinner's, reducers and activators are NOT interchangeable between brands. Get all the required reducers/activators you need for the base coat you are getting from the same supplier.
And then, in my area, there is at least one semi-local chain auto parts store that also specializes in automotive finishes. It is called Al's Auto Parts. In the old days they carried Ditzler. That's what I grew up on. I believe they have switched to Dupont now though.
Anyway, once you get used to the components, the mixing amounts, air pressure, and types of spray guns available, it will all become second nature to you.
 
rotorwrench said:
Using two stage paints is always iffy due to the clear having an affect on the final color analysis. I use single stage urethanes due to that. Clear ends up coming off after a number of years in the sun anyway.
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My experience is that base enamel coatings without a clearcoat are extremely susceptible to appearing chalky after a year or two depending upon the local environment. And car wax does not help much unless you go all out with a power buffer (which I don't recommend for use by an amateur). And the appearance of dullness is ten times worse for metallic base enamels without a clearcoat.
My '55 Sedan was clear-coated one day after a brand new paint-job (aqua over metallic blue two-tone) in 1992 and it still looks as good as it did then.
But my '55 Courier which has only base enamel (aquatone blue) without a clearcoat looks horrible without a recent wax job, buffed out with a power buffer. And it still looks a bit faded, but with a shine at least.
 
Understand what you are saying Dave about using local.
Issue I have found is the one local supplier didn't have the formula for older cars, or so I was told. Which caused me to ask on here.



Dave
 
You may want to check with Tammy @ Tamco about you yellowing clear concerns. They advertise that their clear is made not to yellow the color. Not being able to talk to her on the phone concerning your colors may be a bit of a problem. Their website does not get into the colors, but they do offer custom colors as well as a restoration line to match exactly the original color.

I personally can't stand single stage urethane. I love base/clear & have never had the clear come off of customers (or my own) cars some I see at cruises that I shot decades ago.

God bless
Bill
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...ar-transport-hauling-open-or-enclosed.614419/
 
I use polyurethanes when I can get them. The easiest one to use is the PPG Ditzler Concept if it is still available. It is an acrylic urethane but it flows well and doesn't run or sag easily. It reminds me of my old favorite Deltron but that stuff went away years ago. They still have a wet look after they set up. They can be clear coated over if a person wants to. A good color sand followed with clear will make for a long lasting job even if it sets out in the sun a fair amount.

A person is generally better off using whatever the paint man has the best luck with. Break a leg & pound on wood.
 
rotorwrench said:
I use polyurethanes when I can get them. The easiest one to use is the PPG Ditzler Concept if it is still available. It is an acrylic urethane but it flows well and doesn't run or sag easily. It reminds me of my old favorite Deltron but that stuff went away years ago. They still have a wet look after they set up. They can be clear coated over if a person wants to. A good color sand followed with clear will make for a long lasting job even if it sets out in the sun a fair amount.

A person is generally better off using whatever the paint man has the best luck with. Break a leg & pound on wood.
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I loved Deltron back in the old days & was heartbroken when they did away with it! I still have a bunch in the mixing room. I guess talking about old paint should give me a "boot in the butt" to check all the old stuff to see what has gone hard! LOL
 
There is a newer Deltron but it's 2 stage stuff. I've been using Axalta Imron Elite SS but the stuff just isn't quite like the old Imron and it never was as easy as the old Deltron. They have a new Imron AF400 that I will have to try some time. I've also been using Sherwin Williams AcryGlo and JetGlo but the supplier doesn't want to match any colors. They just want to sell what they have in the chips. Thanks to the EPA, it's getting very hard to paint the airplanes & helicopters. I'm just glad I'm not in CA right now. Texas may eventually go to water born stuff too but I'll likely have to relearn how to shoot that stuff.

The aircraft set outside too much or get drug around on trailers so they get nasty. It's hard to keep a good paint job when they spray malathion too. That stuff will strip paint.
 
Dave, this might interest you. Years ago, our yellow pages phone book included listings for "Auto-Body Repair & Painting SUPPLIES". Those listings have been completely eliminated from all our phone books here now. So I went at looked for "PAINT" listings. The only businesses listed sell house paint. Nothing for automotive. It seems that the powers that be have decided that we, the general public, should not be handling automotive painting products ourselves and that we should turn our projects over to an auto body shop.
So, here's my suggestion: ask your nearest auto body repair shop where he gets his automotive painting supplies. Whoever that is, there you should go to get the colors you want mixed. They can mix any color for any year, make and model.
 
Automotive Touchup Paint is where I get my paint, can buy it for spray gun use or in the spray can.

Its where I got my Diamond Blue for my '56 from to paint my new fender skirts. Only thing is they don't have interior colors so good luck trying to find that.
 
Rusty_S85 said:
Only thing is they don't have interior colors so good luck trying to find that.
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Actually, the interior color charts for the '55 Ford interior paint colors are available. I would guess that most auto body/repair supply outfits could mix the paints for them too, as long as they had the formulas.
 
Daves55Sedan said:
Actually, the interior color charts for the '55 Ford interior paint colors are available. I would guess that most auto body/repair supply outfits could mix the paints for them too, as long as they had the formulas.
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Well ive been having a hard time finding mix formulas for my '56 for the interior, everyone I chatted with told me to pull the glovebox where the paint hasn't seen sun to get a sample from to custom mix it to. My glovebox is just as worn inside as it is outside age wise.
 
Thanks, Guys.


I hadn't thought to go to a body shop.. I race with a guy who owns one, I will ask him. I know he uses high end stuff on his custom work.


Dave
 
Dave Covey said:
Thanks, Guys.


I hadn't thought to go to a body shop.. I race with a guy who owns one, I will ask him. I know he uses high end stuff on his custom work.


Dave
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Even if they don't have a mix for it if you have a good paint sample from the car itself you can take that in and they can fly in a mix expert to get the mix for the paint.

I ran into that on my '63, got paint from the local paint shop gave them the code then I went back a few months later to get more paint as I progressed further along and the color was no where near close. They kept mixing to the card and couldn't figure out what happened to get the color wrong. They ended up bringing in a mix expert to look at my hood hinges and match the color as they cant figure up how they got that color in the first place.
 
Rusty_S85 said:
I ran into that on my '63, got paint from the local paint shop gave them the code then I went back a few months later to get more paint as I progressed further along and the color was no where near close. They kept mixing to the card and couldn't figure out what happened to get the color wrong. They ended up bringing in a mix expert to look at my hood hinges and match the color as they cant figure up how they got that color in the first place.
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WOW Rusty,

I thought every paint store printed the exact "ingredients" on the label or at least keep the mix in their computer under your name? I guess I have been spoiled over the years with the couple I have dealt with.

Did they NOT have the "camera" to put on the paint to get an exact or extremely close match? The store I have been dealing with has one, unfortunately it is always being sent back to be fixed, but when it is there & they use it on my stuff it has been an exact match.

God Bless
Bill
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...ar-transport-hauling-open-or-enclosed.614419/
 
Trainer here: Comments on all the info given, in no particular order. Looks like building the foundation was done well. My preference would be to have a 2K primer or sealer applied over the Featherfill using the paint company's recommended shade color for the topcoat. Having it all one color is also the best for coverage. I know of no manufacturer who can guarantee their clear will not yellow; all will deteriorate over time. The more exposure to the elements, the shorter the life. "Lifetime warranties" given by paint manufacturers are based on an expected life of the finish, its really not "forever". The finish is expected to duplicate the life of the original (OE) finish. Clearcoat finishes are the dominant type used today. Manufacturers have learned a lot as to how to make basecoat color and clear compatible; yellowing and peeling are rare if the finish was applied properly. Whichever brand and type used (single stage or base/clear), make sure you only use recommended products for the "system". Although its done quite often, its never a good idea to use one company's primer, another company's color, then another company's clear.
 
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