Look at this Babbitt
- Thread starter Curly
- Start date
Kohnke Rebabbitting
Well-known member
Curly, I don't know where in Alaska that you are, but about 30 years ago I sold a lot of stuff to a guy that I think had a machine shop in Palmer, Alaska.
He was a nice guy, and if he is still around, you might want to check him out.
I sold him a rod lathe, Jigs, for Model A's and a Kwik -Way Align bore.
I have his phone number if you want it, his name was Henry Raymond.
Herm.
He was a nice guy, and if he is still around, you might want to check him out.
I sold him a rod lathe, Jigs, for Model A's and a Kwik -Way Align bore.
I have his phone number if you want it, his name was Henry Raymond.
Herm.
Mike V. Florida
Well-known member
No it does not. An engine leaving a rebuilder should have 100% mating on the surfaces.
Tom Wesenberg
Well-known member
Rich Faluca (sp) from Antique Engine Rebuilders does a nice job of replacing the slinger that someone has cut off. Or, it might be a good time to buy a new counterweighted crank. I see the Burlington is now back. Does anyone in Alaska do babbit work? Or, should I say GOOD babbit work?
James Rogers
Well-known member
First, I have reservations about posting to this but, I do feel I have some important thoughts on this. The seal is krap, and will not stop oil. I have done many of these miracle seals and have never had but one that didn't leak and, I have lost track of that one so it may have failed by now. According to the theory of hydraulic wedge, the crank should not touch the bearing except when shut down or at start-up. This means, there should not be any scuffing of the babbitt except for some slight indication from stopping and starting. The absence of wells at the side is only the first of terrible mistakes done by this builder. Wells can be cut with a file or carbide grinder if nothing else is available but, they desperately need to be there. The groove should be a spiral from the front of the well to the rear in the proper direction so the oil is distributed across the bearing and the rotation of the crank moves it from one well to the other. I have a set of KR Wilson groovers that do a very nice and proper job of cutting the grooves that I have invested about 3000$ in, good work and proper tools are neither cheap.The hole and straight groove should be a fix for old babbitt that is out of shims and is an old farmer fix ONLY done to bearings as a last resort to get by till a proper repair is made. The slinger is machined off and the crank will have to be repaired to make this a viable engine when the new babbitt is done.
The crack in the front is because the rear thrust dissolved and let the crank move forwards and rearwards. This turned the crank into 2 things. The movement causes the void to fill with oil when the crank moves to the rear and it is effectively turned into a pump when the crank moves forward. This overwhelms the return tube and causes the severe leak you experienced. The other thing it did was to make the crank into a ram or hammer which beat on the front thrust enough to fracture the babbitt.
Bad, bad, bad babbitt job done by an amateur.
The crack in the front is because the rear thrust dissolved and let the crank move forwards and rearwards. This turned the crank into 2 things. The movement causes the void to fill with oil when the crank moves to the rear and it is effectively turned into a pump when the crank moves forward. This overwhelms the return tube and causes the severe leak you experienced. The other thing it did was to make the crank into a ram or hammer which beat on the front thrust enough to fracture the babbitt.
Bad, bad, bad babbitt job done by an amateur.
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Joe K
Well-known member
Too bad Sears doesn't have "mail order engines" anymore.
But MANY parts houses offer nearly the same deal - unfortunately at today's prices.
Guy over in Brentwood, NH has a couple of "removed when running" short block engines set aside. He wants $200 per engine.
But the shipping would kill you.
Joe K
But MANY parts houses offer nearly the same deal - unfortunately at today's prices.
Guy over in Brentwood, NH has a couple of "removed when running" short block engines set aside. He wants $200 per engine.
But the shipping would kill you.
Joe K
Jim Brierley
Well-known member
With stock oiling you need a groove to spread the oil. I'd try it again after making a few mods, you can always redo it later. Has the rear slinger been taken off the crank? If so you need the cork or other kind of seal.
James Rogers
Well-known member
Or send it to me to be repaired. I can replace the slinger so the original system will work.
Ron in Quincy
Well-known member
I agree with Kohnke Rebabbitting , poor Babbitt job.
I have, in the past, cut a grove toward the rear of the main cap, not connecting it to the cast angled groove, drilled a 1/8" hole at the bottom of the groove into the return passage way, the original slinger and cork was still in place and not removed, this started some of the excess oil at the rear of the cap to return to the pan, the slinger and passage way would pick up the balance of the oil and return it to the pan. It stopped a bad rear main leak on a friend of mine engine.
Another thing to always check is the return pipe; I have seen them screwed into the cap far enough to block the passageway so no oil is allowed to flow out.
I certainly am not a engine builder and am sure people will disagree with what was done, but it has worked several times to stop or reduce excessive rear main oil leak.
Ron
I have, in the past, cut a grove toward the rear of the main cap, not connecting it to the cast angled groove, drilled a 1/8" hole at the bottom of the groove into the return passage way, the original slinger and cork was still in place and not removed, this started some of the excess oil at the rear of the cap to return to the pan, the slinger and passage way would pick up the balance of the oil and return it to the pan. It stopped a bad rear main leak on a friend of mine engine.
Another thing to always check is the return pipe; I have seen them screwed into the cap far enough to block the passageway so no oil is allowed to flow out.
I certainly am not a engine builder and am sure people will disagree with what was done, but it has worked several times to stop or reduce excessive rear main oil leak.
Ron
Joe K
Well-known member
I'm wondering if cold temperatures may have contributed to the failure? Low viscosity oil would be more liable to sit on the "feed" side of the groove and not jump beyond to the small land and hence to the thrust.
This might have been an engine that would be FINE in Florida - but was challenged when the oil got thick.
Not as an excuse for poor work. Obviously this a car that had MAJOR rear main issues - and they put on the wrong Band-Aid.
Joe K
petew
Senior Member
First, I have reservations about posting to this but, I do feel I have some important thoughts on this. The seal is krap, and will not stop oil. I have done many of these miracle seals and have never had but one that didn't leak and, I have lost track of that one so it may have failed by now.
It's still not leaking Jamesand it runs like a top !
Ron in Quincy
Well-known member
Instead of updating my previous post, I would like to explain where I got the idea to make the modification.
About 40 years ago I was disassembling 3 engines to come up with a good block for rebuild. Two of the engines had this same modification to the rear main cap and it appeared to have been done for a long time or even when the engine was rebuilt. As I recall these blocks had been bored .030 over standard. It seemed like a good solution.
Several years later a friend of mine was building a Speedster and the engine he was going to install came out of his 30 Coupe; the engine had been leaking bad from the rear main. I suggested we try this modification when we pulled the main caps to check clearance; we made the modification and the engine to this day is still running and does not leak. The Speedster is still in Sacramento, CA which is not a cold climate area. I seem to recall my friend ran 30 weight detergent oil in his engines.
Ron
About 40 years ago I was disassembling 3 engines to come up with a good block for rebuild. Two of the engines had this same modification to the rear main cap and it appeared to have been done for a long time or even when the engine was rebuilt. As I recall these blocks had been bored .030 over standard. It seemed like a good solution.
Several years later a friend of mine was building a Speedster and the engine he was going to install came out of his 30 Coupe; the engine had been leaking bad from the rear main. I suggested we try this modification when we pulled the main caps to check clearance; we made the modification and the engine to this day is still running and does not leak. The Speedster is still in Sacramento, CA which is not a cold climate area. I seem to recall my friend ran 30 weight detergent oil in his engines.
Ron
Mike V. Florida
Well-known member
This thread has been of real interest.
James Rogers
Well-known member
First, I have reservations about posting to this but, I do feel I have some important thoughts on this. The seal is krap, and will not stop oil. I have done many of these miracle seals and have never had but one that didn't leak and, I have lost track of that one so it may have failed by now.
It's still not leaking James
Kurt in NJ
Well-known member
Here is another failed rear main leak fix ---this is from engine that still had 2 shims each side, the cap has never been cut ---but the .007 clearance didn't help ---the multitude of embedded debris from bad honing/ridge removal,ring job ate the crank out of round .003
With proper restoration modifications to the rear seal area are not needed
depending on you driving needs, and the condition of the other bearings a "repair" could be done with the brass seal/thrust sold for ther upper, and a replacement cap cut to fit
With proper restoration modifications to the rear seal area are not needed
depending on you driving needs, and the condition of the other bearings a "repair" could be done with the brass seal/thrust sold for ther upper, and a replacement cap cut to fit
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J and M Machine
Senior Member
We see this all the time. Poorly done babbitt.
I have enclosed done by others and ours.
Bearing groove should have coverage from almost end to end.
Same goes for the block and cap. With oil wells on either side.
There shouldn't be any holes in rear main cap draing oil off of bearing surface.
Many people have mentioned this to us as a stop gap repair.
Don't do it.!
I have enclosed done by others and ours.
Bearing groove should have coverage from almost end to end.
Same goes for the block and cap. With oil wells on either side.
There shouldn't be any holes in rear main cap draing oil off of bearing surface.
Many people have mentioned this to us as a stop gap repair.
Don't do it.!
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Going good Carl thanks. I put three hundred miles on it since Saturday. 
We replaced the lower Babbitt with a new one that was done properly. Jim is amazing. It's not a permanent fix but it gets me back on the road. Ultimatley I need to replace the top Babbitt with a brass seal but this requires the engine coming out and a lot of work I just can't do right now.
We replaced the lower Babbitt with a new one that was done properly. Jim is amazing. It's not a permanent fix but it gets me back on the road. Ultimatley I need to replace the top Babbitt with a brass seal but this requires the engine coming out and a lot of work I just can't do right now.
