Lifters revisited...

Bassman/NZ

Bassman/NZ

Well-known member
I know the hot tip is to drill holes in the lifter bores for a pin punch, but how about in an engine that is already assembled and running? I'm pulling my engine for a trans swap, and figure I will do a valve lap while its out. I'd like to install adjustables, but have no inclination to pull a good engine right down just to drill the holes and then have the block cleaned out. Any other way?
 
Use the two Johnson style wrenches to adjust, one holds the lifter from turning using the holes on the top of the lifter and the other turns the adjustment nut. They are in the Mac's Catalog
 
The tools for the Johnson style lifters can be used if it is the only way. There seems to be confusion about those tools?? They look nearly identical but can best be described as left hand and right hand and they are BOTH for holding the lifter while the bolt is being adjusted.
 
I've always understood both were needed. You use one - whichever one will work - to hold the lifter and you do the actual adjusting with a wrench (spanner?). I've seen them used but never did the job myself. FWIW
 
Those tool will work if you get a good set of lifters. Some lifters are mad in India ect. There so hard to turn it just breaks the tool or the threads are so loose thay don't stay ajusted. Walt
 
BTW: Sears/Craftsman still sells thin tappet wrenches. They won't help from keeping the lifter from turning, but they will fit in between the valve assy. & lifter.
 
There is another consideration: What cam are you installing?? If It's a hi lift bam with small base circle the lifter drops below the top of the lifter bore making matters worse. One way to do this is to adjust the lifters befor you install the valve springs. Put the lifter in the bore install the guide and valve and measure the adjustment needed and do the adjustment in a vice. I've done this several times. Takes a little thought power.
 
I had to remove the cam gear and turn the cam so the lifters were raised. The sheet metal wrenches are worthless. I made a tool frm music wire to hold the lifters from turning. It was a V shape with the ends bent down to engage the lifter holes.
 
OK Bassman, I will answer your question and no doubt be labeled a heretic. Obviously, at the least you have to remove the heads, intake valves and lifters to get access to the lifter bosses. I have modified assembled engines for adjustable lifters and 95% oil filtration with the use of strong magnets to catch the drill shavings and grease on the drill bit. For the lifters, go to your local hardware store and get some of those plastic or rubber furniture leg caps that will fit snugly down the lifter bosses. You may have to drill a little hole in the cap and tie a string to it in order to yank it out. You take these precautions to get the big pieces and then you use a strong vacuum to clean it all out. On reassembly I will wash everything out with some clean motor oil and drain the pan. Finally, when I go to run the engine, I am installing a magnet on the oil drain plug. So, I've improved the oil system to filter the oil before it is used to lubricate and added the magnet to catch the particles.

Do I think that this is the best way to do these jobs? Of course I don't. I would much rather go down to my local hospital in the middle of the night and use one of their surgical wards to assemble my engine. But, to do a whole tear down on a good running engine to make these important alterations does not seem to make sense to me either.

OK, got my flak vest on and I'm hunkered down. Blast away.;)
 
Andy said:
I had to remove the cam gear and turn the cam so the lifters were raised. The sheet metal wrenches are worthless. I made a tool frm music wire to hold the lifters from turning. It was a V shape with the ends bent down to engage the lifter holes.
Click to expand...


I'm trying to picture music wire working as a tool. Do you have a picture of what you made?
 
"OK, got my flak vest on and I'm hunkered down. Blast away."

Heh heh heh! Remember the old days??? When engines got repaired, not totally torn down and scrubbed and fully re-machined??
Valve job, anyone, or even a ring and valve job done with engine in car?? On Chevys, which had chronic rod problems, it was routine to turn a crank throw IN THE CAR* while replacing the rod that had just beaten everything to death.
Metal shavings, Clover coarse and fine emery, ring honing, blood, EVERYWHERE.
Cleanup...shop rag, mebbe a paint brush dipped in gasoline...
The whole damn national supply of cars worked this way. For a long time.
Again, less than optimum, and FAR less careful than an experienced enthusiast would do verboten things like this.

*(edit...this was done with a tool that looked like a big tubing cutter, equipped with a bit like a lathe cutting tool...really!)
 
Bruce - My Dad had one of those tools to turn crank throws with the engine in the car. Used the tool to cut the offending bearing and polished the surface with different grades of emery cloth. Clean up was as you mentioned AND IT WORKED. Never gave it a thought as it was just another repair.
 
Tim Ayers said:
I'm trying to picture music wire working as a tool. Do you have a picture of what you made?
Click to expand...

I don't have a pic but I will try a little harder to explain it. The lifter has 4 holes on top. I took about a 8" piece of 1/8 music wire and bent it into a narrow V. The ends were the span of the opposite holes in the lifter. I bent the ends of the wire 90* down so they would hold the lifter. It was shallow and really strong. I could get a wrench in above it.
 
Andy said:
I don't have a pic but I will try a little harder to explain it. The lifter has 4 holes on top. I took about a 8" piece of 1/8 music wire and bent it into a narrow V. The ends were the span of the opposite holes in the lifter. I bent the ends of the wire 90* down so they would hold the lifter. It was shallow and really strong. I could get a wrench in above it.
Click to expand...


OK, got it. By music wire do you mean a piano or bass guitar string or the music wire you are referring to is something else?
 
Google "Music Wire" and you will find the suppliers are there, like K & S. I don't think you will find it at your local hardware store.
 
I am an old model airplane builder. I may have the name wrong. It is highly tempered wire used to make model airplane parts, mostly landing gears. It is extreamly strong and stiff. You will have a problem cutting or bending it. I cut it by grinding it and bend it in a vice.
 
Andy said:
I am an old model airplane builder. I may have the name wrong. It is highly tempered wire used to make model airplane parts, mostly landing gears. It is extreamly strong and stiff. You will have a problem cutting or bending it. I cut it by grinding it and bend it in a vice.
Click to expand...


Got it. Makes sense now. Thanks.
 
[QUOTE
Heh heh heh! Remember the old days??? When engines got repaired, not totally torn down and scrubbed and fully re-machined??
Valve job, anyone, or even a ring and valve job done with engine in car?? On Chevys, which had chronic rod problems, it was routine to turn a crank throw IN THE CAR* while replacing the rod that had just beaten everything to death.
Metal shavings, Clover coarse and fine emery, ring honing, blood, EVERYWHERE.
Cleanup...shop rag, mebbe a paint brush dipped in gasoline...
The whole damn national supply of cars worked this way. For a long time.
Again, less than optimum, and FAR less careful than an experienced enthusiast would do verboten things like this.

*(edit...this was done with a tool that looked like a big tubing cutter, equipped with a bit like a lathe cutting tool...really!)[/QUOTE]

Bruce, Thanks. Glad to see that someone else remembers. My experience and training also came from 'these days'. I still try to operate in this manner, at least on my own stuff. Problem is, it is very hard to find 'cooperation', today. Remember Chevy's? On certain cylinders, you could actually change a rod from the bottom, without removing the head.
I recently found a guy who still operates a crank-grinder, for in-the-car repair. I'm having less luck finding someone willing to do a bore-job on an assembled engine. They all seem to want a disassembled block, **** n span, and 'clean-room' environment.
As for the lifter question... I'd go for it - of course, taking precautions & catching all the chips. It really shouldn't be all that difficult.
And, by-the-way, my experience with those Johnson lifter tools, has been very poor. They were never very good 50/60 years ago, and the ones that I still have, are still no good today. I don't generally try to use them. Last adjustment I did, I removed the valve assy & lifter, make small adjustment, reinstalled, checked, and repeat if necessary.
 
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