Leaning Model A

T

tribouboys

Senior Member
Good afternoon and wanting to poll the experts in the group. My model A leans towards the driver side is this typically caused by the rear spring , the front spring or could be both?
Thanks ahead of time for your insight.
 
tribouboys said:
Good afternoon and wanting to poll the experts in the group. My model A leans towards the driver side is this typically caused by the rear spring , the front spring or could be both?
Thanks ahead of time for your insight.
Click to expand...

Springs are certainly the first thing to try. I’d start at the rear, swap the spring side to side. And use this as the opportunity to renew your shackles and bushings, broken or frozen shackle can contribute to lean.
 
Jack up the car using a floor jack at the center of the front axle. If it still leans then it is the rear spring. If it no longer leans then it is the front spring.

The springs can be adjusted by adding shims but first make sure all the bolts are tight. The torque specification is 100 foot-pounds. Do not try to take the rear spring apart without special equipment and training/instructions.

Jay Jay has some good advice regarding checking the shackles, etc.
 
Lift the front with a jack and then see if the rear is still leaning. In my experience, it's generally both springs. Things to check would be if the spring center bolts are still centered in the cross members. If the bolt head or cross member have problems then they can slip side to side. The springs also could have cracked leaves. I started with a worn out front spring on my 29 and it was still leaning in the back while setting with jack stands under the front frame rails. After 90+ years, things may be worn out or broken. It's pretty common on these old Fords.
 
Hello, the shackle bushings also tend to wear, sometimes even into the rear axle housing,.As mentioned, use extreme caution when working with the springs a spreader and large c clamps are required.Fromt axle perches can be replaced,but they are usually stuck into front axle really tight .
 
This topic has come up before. The reason your car leans to the left is not the weight of the driver always being on that side. We are RHD in this country and ours also lean to the left.
My Phaeton up till a week or two ago had a BAD lean which appeared suddenly. The rear X member was badly cracked due to the load put on it by towing as much as I do. I don't think I paid enough attention to getting it exactly right before I welded on a stiffening repair. My solution was to find a leaf from an old front spring (because it is narrower and therefore won't be affected by the radiused corners of the X member). It was a simple calculation to work out how thick a shim needed to be if I put it between the top of the spring and the X member. I ground down about 100mm (4 inches) to a taper with the thickest end being what I had calculated and the other end, sharp. I jacked the car up and put stands of equal height under the chassis on each side, loosened the U bolts just far enough that the center bolt did not disengage the X member. Then, I drove the tapered and of the old spring between the X member and the top of the spring till it hit the center bolt, then tightened everything up again.
The car is now sitting nice and level. It doesn't bug the hell out of me now.
 
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it does seem to be the left side of model A that lean. someday i may try to find out why mine leans but until then i named my car Ilean.
 
I would change both springs. Think of a 95 year old recliner, how would those springs work.

It will improve your ride.
 
Besides worn/broken transverse springs and shackles, I have encountered leaning Model A's, whose condition was not caused by these factors. Invariably this occurs in "restored" vehicles that just missed the mark of being done properly in many areas. In almost no cases were broken or worn springs or worn spring hangers at fault: the previous owner was! He didn't pay enough attention during the restoration to seating the frame's crossmembers over the front and/or rear spring. The center bolt head may or may not be in its crossmember's square hole. Too often the frame was lowered over the spring(s) and the hanger nuts tightened without measuring or properly eyeballing the frame's relative position. Usually, the body ends up leaning to the left, when actually it's the FRAME that's leaning, taking the body along for the "ride".
Before tearing the transverse springs out or doing something equally drastic, try this first because it won't take long and costs nothing: Measure from the middle of each rear fender's edge to the ground and write those numbers down. Then measure from the front fenders' support braces' tips to the ground and write those figures down. Now you'll know how much the car is leaning to the left or to the right. Loosen the front and rear spring hanger nuts, about a half inch or so.
Now stand on the high side's running board in the middle and jump up and down using your legs as springs. Your feet don't leave the runningboard. Rather, you are basically doing heavy-duty deep knee bends. Hold onto the open window surround so that you won't fall off. What you are doing is rolling the frame over the springs on their topsides so that the frame now evens out in levelness. You can actually feel the frame rolling over the tops of the springs. This will not pull the square head center spring bolts out of the crossmember hole if it is in place. Get off the runningboard and take new measurements. Keep this rocking and rolling procedure up until the driver's side is just a skosh higher than the right side, maybe 1/4" to 1/2". This allows for the driver's weight to even out the frame while driving. Be sure to tighten up the spring hanger nuts when satisfied with the way the car now sits. Don't forget the cotter pins! They're there for a reason.
I have "saved" numerous Model A's from an expensive, time-consuming and potentially dangerous transverse spring removal-repair-replacement following this rock and roll method. The whole procedure shouldn't take more than 1/2 hour and may save you a bundle of money and tons of effort. It won't fix a badly fatigued or broken spring, of course, but if that turns out to be the cause of the lean, you're only out a few minutes' time.
Marshall
 
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Just another data point here - when I disassembled my 30’s front spring I found three broken spring leaves. Managed to scavenge the required leaves from three other front ends, now I have a ton of extra front end parts (anyone need spindles? Steering arms? Radius rods? Axle and wishbone assembly?) I opted to cold re-arch rather than replace with new, we’ll see how that holds up.

Rear spring was intact, but I did have to re-arch it as well.

After grinding out the grooves and rounding the tips, I painted each leaf of both springs with Slip-it graphite paint.

There are vendors who can hot re-arch but you have to have the curvature data for each leaf. That info exists on the factory drawing but I’ve never been able to read it from compressed pics of the drawing that I’ve seen.

Make sure your shackles rotate freely within the bushings, and only tighten the nuts up enough to get the cotter pins in. Frozen shackles from either tight fit or binding won’t do you any good.

Lots of good info above about how to avoid the spring assembly blowing up in your face while working the center bolt.
 
M. Daut's post (#) is good advice. A friend of mine says that his high school Model A had loose spring bolts in the rear. After going around any corner too fast he would have to stop the car and push it back to level. He thought that all Model As were like that.

If you end up taking the spring apart, here's the safety plan. First, the spring threader has to be in good condition and made strong. Wear safety glasses and think about where steel would be flying if the spreader buckled and/or slipped off the spring.

Then to take the spring apart, keep those glasses on. Put 2 or 4 c-clamps on the spring on either side of the center bolt. Then get a piece of threaded rod and bolt it in tight. Take off the clamps and loosen the threaded rod until all the spring tension is released. If you were to just unbolt the stock center bolt the spring leaves would be flying around your shop at terrific speed.
 
Try the easy things first. Spray both springs library with a low viscosity oil or WD40 and drive the car so the spring flexes. I find that rust between the spring leaves is often the culprit when the car leans to one side. I highly recommend spring covers. The improvement in the ride because of the lubricant in the covers is significant.
 

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tribouboys said:
Good afternoon and wanting to poll the experts in the group. My model A leans towards the driver side is this typically caused by the rear spring , the front spring or could be both?
Thanks ahead of time for your insight.
Click to expand...

Make sure you read up on safety precautions if you plan to remove the rear spring. That can be dangerous if you don't do it right.
 
My 28 RHD phaeton leans to the right
My 30 RHD cabriolet leans to the right .
My 30. LHD P/U leans to the left
My 30 LHD AA truck does not lean .

The rear spring is the culprit reverse it 180 degrees and the lean will be reversed . Many years of driver only sets the spring .

John still in Suffolk County England
 
john charlton said:
My 28 RHD phaeton leans to the right
My 30 RHD cabriolet leans to the right .
My 30. LHD P/U leans to the left
My 30 LHD AA truck does not lean .

The rear spring is the culprit reverse it 180 degrees and the lean will be reversed . Many years of driver only sets the spring .

John still in Suffolk County England
Click to expand...

But 3 of my Model As (all RHD) lean to the left. There seems to be no rhyme nor reason.
 
WHN said:
I would change both springs. Think of a 95 year old recliner, how would those springs work.

It will improve your ride.
Click to expand...


Replace them with what or from whom?

The reproduction Model-A springs that were correct are no longer manufactured. The spring rates for the new reproduction springs which are presently being made have thicker leaves (think 8 individual leafs now instead of 10 as original) which gives a higher spring rate and actually makes the ride harsher.
 
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