Leakless water pumps... is it me?

Kube said:
Thank you WHN. Perhaps the current quality (lack of) is not what it was when you'd installed yours.
Getting a replacement pump from Mike's is not the primary issue. They replaced the first defective pump. Of course, I had to pay shipping both ways for a defective part sent to me.
The primary issue is all of my labor and the newly rebuilt radiator that the fan clipped when this latest pump shifted.
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Kube, after all your expert and experience e on the 40 Fords you have cut things in half (engine wise) to experience the Model A’s. They have a charm about them for sure.
A few of my experiences after many years of working in them. I’ve rebuilt many originals and installed many (leakless) pumps, hundreds over the years. My preference is the mid grade Snyder’s pumps. Realize these are lip seal cartridge type units . Over time leakless may leak, but overall I’ve only had a couple give trouble enough to replace them. A half pump now and then in the back fitting is all that is needed. Lip seals don’t last forever as you know but overall they are a decent pump . The original castings can be thin and many cracked at the back, so the new pump casting’s some are a good thing.
Here’s my other experience .
If you are replacing a 4 blade and planning to do a 2 blade ( when again available ) I take a saws all and toast the pump in half . It saves a lot of time not having to deal with headlight wiring, hood alignment, and more . I put a sheet down underneath to catch debris and then blow clean with an air nozzle when done.
Replace with a new pump and 2 blade and you should have radiator clearance to do that.
Saves time and some aggravation .
Just my 2 cents worth .
Seems reversed telling the 40 Ford king from a seasoned A guy.
Anyway, all the best !
Larry Shepard
 
larrys40 said:
Kube, after all your expert and experience e on the 40 Fords you have cut things in half (engine wise) to experience the Model A’s. They have a charm about them for sure.
A few of my experiences after many years of working in them. I’ve rebuilt many originals and installed many (leakless) pumps, hundreds over the years. My preference is the mid grade Snyder’s pumps. Realize these are lip seal cartridge type units . Over time leakless may leak, but overall I’ve only had a couple give trouble enough to replace them. A half pump now and then in the back fitting is all that is needed. Lip seals don’t last forever as you know but overall they are a decent pump . The original castings can be thin and many cracked at the back, so the new pump casting’s some are a good thing.
Here’s my other experience .
If you are replacing a 4 blade and planning to do a 2 blade ( when again available ) I take a saws all and toast the pump in half . It saves a lot of time not having to deal with headlight wiring, hood alignment, and more . I put a sheet down underneath to catch debris and then blow clean with an air nozzle when done.
Replace with a new pump and 2 blade and you should have radiator clearance to do that.
Saves time and some aggravation .
Just my 2 cents worth .
Seems reversed telling the 40 Ford king from a seasoned A guy.
Anyway, all the best !
Larry Shepard
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I like your analogy of "cutting in half". I am having a lot of fun with the A's for certain. I am learning a lot along the way.

I have one two blade fan (aluminum) that has a damaged hub. The four-blade fan that I have fits very well upon the pump shafts.
I am at the point that I've decided to rebuild an authentic pump.
Thanks for the encouragement. I am stubborn enough to get past this recent debacle :)
 
I have one from Mike's on my Roadster. I got it in February this year. So far no issues. Using a two blade aluminum fan with a little machine work to fit the taper perfectly.
 
I have never had any problems with my leakless water pump. Another word: I have good luck buying things from Snyders.
 
Kube said:
Still wondering if anyone else had a similar issue with the so called leakless pumps.
Lots of responses that I thank you guys for. However, only one response that addressed my inquiry.
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I installed a leakless on my Tudor last week that I bought from Snyder's. It has a small paper that came with it and it said to grease the rear and the front is sealed. However it chirps every now and then for a few minutes straight. I removed the rear grease cap and tried to add grease to it, but none will go in. Yes, the packing nut is loose to allow air to escape, still no go. No, It's not the pulley rubbing on the pump.

I'm keeping an eye on it.

Regards
Bill
 
Some people have good luck with the leakless pumps. I have not. If a leakless pump springs a leak during a tour there is nothing you can do but change the pump if you're prepared enough to be carrying a spare. Not a huge job but it'll take considerable effort and time. If a standard pump springs a leak, all you need is some split ring packing and you're back on the road in 5 minutes.
 
I've never had to remove the radiator to remove the water pump and I don't remove the head studs. Put a piece of cardboard between fan and radiator. Unbolt hood radiator support rods and lean radiator forward a bit. It's enough to remove the water pump. I also use the additional set screw on the nose end of the water pump to remove slack, and it's hidden by the housing on the new aluminum two blade fans. Shaft can't move forward if all assembled correctly and you're using the thrust washer on the impellor side. As well, my leakless is only the head side of the water pump and I use the stock needle bearing on radiator side. Solid seals in the packing nut, tighten a bit, then slack off and leave finger tight. If the leakless brass bushing is grease packed correctly, just need a bit of top up grease using the brass nut, finger turn in option. No leaks at all.
 
BillCNC,
I had the same thing, same supplier, same description and instruction (sealed front, grease rear). I took the fitting off the rear, and stuck a wire in the hole, discovering that the hole was blind ,either from misalignment during installation or no hole in the bearing shell. _Really_ careful drilling and chip removal allowed me to grease the rollers, and the rear seal blew out, letting the grease into the coolant. It's hard to guess which seal goes with this leak less version, but the shaft was toast by then. Check the grease path soon, be careful and good luck
I have several good pump bodies, and would like to rebuild one in the leakless style, but am hoping to see a report on FB of someone doing so successfully with a reliable description of which parts to use, from where (recently enough to be current).
Russ
 
nkaminar said:
I think you can add the packing to the leakless pump if it starts leaking.
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Not the one that I had. The packing nut that you would usually tighten down after adding a split ring was not designed to compress the packing rings. It is a seal and the area that surrounds the shaft is a flexible material to seal against the shaft and would not put any pressure on the packing rings.
 
All leakless pumps are not constructed the same. I prefer to have a functional packing nut in reserve in case of seal failure. :)
 
I rebuilt my pump with the leakless seal rebuild kit from Snyder's, no drips so far but the new brass original looking drain petcock has dripped. I also have a 4-blade fan and forget the studs with the nuts or bolts because the 4-blade will not come out of there unless you remove the radiator.
 
I put a leakless on my 31 two door in the early 2000's it has held up very well no problems so far. I run water the mouths that's above freezing. I wondered if it would hold up after sitting though the below freezing weather on them seals here in Illinois each spring it gets refilled w/water no leaking so far. They told me that antifreeze will leak into places water won't go. I've had the old girl almost 50 yrs.
 
I prefer Henry's original design with the packing there is absolutely nothing wrong with that design as long as you maintain it just like any other part on the model AIT must be maintained properly!!!
 
RDVAARK said:
BillCNC,
I had the same thing, same supplier, same description and instruction (sealed front, grease rear). I took the fitting off the rear, and stuck a wire in the hole, discovering that the hole was blind ,either from misalignment during installation or no hole in the bearing shell. _Really_ careful drilling and chip removal allowed me to grease the rollers, and the rear seal blew out, letting the grease into the coolant. It's hard to guess which seal goes with this leak less version, but the shaft was toast by then. Check the grease path soon, be careful and good luck
I have several good pump bodies, and would like to rebuild one in the leakless style, but am hoping to see a report on FB of someone doing so successfully with a reliable description of which parts to use, from where (recently enough to be current).
Russ
Click to expand...

Hi Russ,

I did check after hearing it chirp. I also swapped out the original style grease fitting in the rear with a modern type so I could push the grease with my electric grease gun. Doing so allowed me to shove grease in there until I saw it coming out and re-tightened the packing nut to finger tight but I'm still getting a chirping sound just not as often. Either it will work itself out or fail. If it fails, I'll contact Snyder's.

Regards
Bill
 
JayJay said:
You can avoid having to mess with the radiator if you
  1. Replace the water pump mounting studs with cap screws. The parts suppliers have cap screws that look like studs if you are particular.
  2. Replace the four blade fan with a two blade fan.
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When I use the 2 blade fan and the cap bolts over studs, I also grind down one of the impellers so the water pump can be removed without touching the radiator mounting. When the fan blades are placed vertical there is that one impeller that can be ground down some so the whole assembly can then be pivoted out from the side.
 
The Master Cylinder said:
This is true, and I bet a lot of folks don't know or remember what they have. One of the reasons I prefer the original packing type water pump. Easy to repair when on the road, just tighten or add some packing.
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Over the years I have seen so many "leakless" water pumps fail. The worst ones were the ones with the packing nut that had a lip seal. If it pushed out then the coolant would just gush out. A farmer's fix on the road was to put a greased sponge around the shaft and rap the w.p. with duct tape to seal off the assembly.

If you are a high mileage driver Model A guy, you can not go wrong with the Henry Original Water Pump and packing nut on a steel or SS shaft. Make sure the shaft has no wear / carved grooves in it. Every Spring before touring, I replace the packing (I use the graphite seal) and throw some bearing grease on it and tighten until the leaking stops. Over the season I may have to tighten 1/2 to 1 turn on the packing nut to stop any new leaks.
 
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