Leaking "leakless" water pump

Re: Update: Leaking "leakless" water pump

Nlbloch said:
Thanks, all, for your input.

I'm wondering if the leak may be coming from the packing nut, and whether a packing nut can be sealed better on a "modern" pump? How are these nuts removed -- the design doesn't lend itself to a normal wrench. There does not appear to be any end-play or other excessive wear.

also, wondering if rust inhibitor can be used together with anti-freeze?
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I've been following this thread as I too have a water pump in pieces and am undertaking a reconditioning job as opposed to buying a new pump. This thread has focused entirely on the anti-freeze/rust inhibitor issue. No-one seems to be addressing your original problem, so here's what I have found (and please bear in mind that I'm no guru):

1. You should be able to tell where the water is coming from by watching it when the motor is running, and/or looking for signs such as rust marks. If it's the packing nut, the leak can only be at the front end (shaft) or back end (bushing thread). The only other place water can get out is around the gasket at the rear of the pump. The difference should be obvious. I guess it's important to know HOW MUCH water is leaking - do you have a significant issue as opposed to requiring just a minor tweak? :confused:

2. There are several different styles of leakless water pump out there, varying in the design of (a) the seal at the rear of the rear bushing; (b) the manner in which the packing nut achieves a secondary seal should water get through the rear seal; and (c) grease vs no grease required. This will affect your choice of "fix".

3. To know what type of leakless pump you've got, you probably need to pull the water pump off and pull it apart. Compare your setup with the diagrams available in the catalogues or on the websites of Snyders, Brattons, Macs, etc. (This is what I have done and the result is that I now know mine backwards, which can't be a bad thing!).

4. If your "leakless" packing nut has no packing inside, it must rely only on a modern seal - usually a neoprene ring at the back (or front?) of the packing nut. If this seal has failed, you've got two options:
a) buy a replacement leakless packing nut and/or ring (but you'll have to dismantle the water pump to install it)
b) it may be possible to add new packing and grease to prevent any water that gets past the rear bushing seal from coming further forward. This is what I am trying - in my case I am adding some new lead/felt rings (e.g. Brattons #12650) + grease. The leakless reconditioning kit that I purchased didn't work due to my inability to seat the O-ring at the back of the packing nut around the base of the rear bushing thread. So I'm reverting to the original concept, plus I have the added assurance of the new unworn shaft and the seal that's built into my new rear bushing. Your ability to do this will depend on whether or not your leakless pump has a grease-way to the inside of the packing nut (that's why you gotta know what you got in the first place!). The other advantage of this option is that you could try it without removing the pump. You can screw the packing nut forward, right off the rear bushing, and insert the new lead/felt packing rings which are split to allow them to open up as they are placed over the shaft. I found that I needed three rings.

Tom's right about the special wrench. They're cheap as!! But the packing nut doesn't really get done up super tight, so you can easily do without one of these and tap it around with something behind those big lugs on the nut.

That was long-winded, but I hope it sheds some light that hadn't appeared so far! :) It's probably also important to say that I haven't put my pump back on and tested my packing nut theory yet!! :eek:
 
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Dollar Bill said:
Yes, antifreeze is good stuff. I use it in all of my modern vehicles. I could never keep it from weeping past the head studs and head gasket in the Model-A.

It lives in a garage and winter temps never get low enough to freeze here in Florida.
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$Bill,
Here's my take on it, first of all, Model A's have an OLD design water jacket & NOT nearly enough head studs & are prone to leaking if everything is not "PERFECT"!
That old TALE of "ANTIFREEZE WILL LEAK, WHERE WATER WON'T" is a MYTH!! Water leaks also, but dries up & leaves NO traces ! When ANTIFREEZE LEAKS, IT LEAVES THE DRIED UP GREEN, OR WHATEVER COLOR, "CALLING CARD"!!
AND, that's the REST OF THE "STORY"
Bill W.
 
I don't recommend tightening the leakless pump you will damage the seal. You can give it a slight bit but no more than slight. The packing nut only holds the seal in place. And yes drive the **** out of your car that's what it was built for!! JMHO
 
Tom Wesenberg said:
You need to buy the special wrench for the water pump. It's only a couple bucks from the dealers. In fact if you buy two of them and tape them together you have a better bite on the teeth of the nut.
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Tom:
That's one heck of a good idea, I'm going to add it to my next order.
As you point out, and I noticed, getting a good bite was tricky with the single wrench. I noticed that the single wrench mauled my nut a little with the slippage.
Might be a good idea to start making thicker water pump wrenches and offering them for sale at a modest return.
Better tools for a better job,
Call it "The nut grabber"
 
I just received my copy of "The Model A News" from MARC. There's a great article about water pumps. Anybody ever hear of an "Everseal" made by Atlas brass in Cleveland. Also there was a Rex Reheis pump which is supposed to be available from Bert's. Both pumps use a different impeller. Better? I can't say! But the Everseal was found in an antique shop gathering dust, there are probably more.
Terry
 
New and Improved
"The Nut Grabber"
"All Grip, No Slip, No Drip"

From "Squirrelly Industries"...Get yours TODAY
 

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Thanks to everyone who took time to post and share their knowledge.

In answer to one question, the leak is fairly minor but did cause me to stop driving to add water. It is clearly coming from the front - that is where the rusty brown water has left its calling card.

Just as mysteriously as it appeared, the leak seems to have stopped -- at least for now. So I will monitor closely and use the info learned here to solve the problem if/when it returns.
 
I agree with Kurt and have seen many "leakless" pumps either leak or loose a bearing. Henry's pump was a good design if you used lead packing rings with grease smeared on them, then just give them a small pump of grease once in a great while.

Nlbloch, it's time to derust your cooling system and start using 50% antifreeze. Rust is sure to destroy seals and busings, and bearings, and it doesn't help cooling efficency. I'd flush it out by letting it soak with 3 gallonss of pure white vinegar for at least a couple weeks, then rince it and neutralize it with some baking soda. Then use antifreeze. Or you could use Evaporust to clean it out, then rinse with warm water.
 
My thought. . . Just because it is called a leakless pump does not mean it is maintenance free. I have run leakless pumps on both my cars for more than 8 years and never had a problem. What do I do? Each time I check the oil, I put that drop of oil at the tip of the dipstick on the shaft of the pump next to the packing nut. I put a drop on the front end also. This makes sure any seal inside the nut has some lubricant.
Does it work? So far I have had no problems for over 10,000 miles. It costs nothing.
FWIW

Dick Wyckoff
 
thanks for the advice. Radiator was new last year. Did not put in 50/50 antifreeze based on other advice in this forum that plain water is best, but needed to add some as additional protection in Illinois weather despite heated garage.

Based on only 8 mos use do you still advise de-rusting?
 
Just got the parts to rebuild my "leakless" pump, new shaft w impeller and new rear bushing. I was under the impression that the grease fittings were just for show. Both the old and new bushing had grease channel an hole to allow grease to reach shaft. Bushing seal had worn a groove in water pump shaft allowing water to go under seal. Front bushing is a roller bearing and also could use a little grease. How do you remove water pump studs?
 
My "leakless" water pump developed a leak after about 8 years. I added a grease coated packing washer (as sold by the vendors) under the packing nut. I tightened the packing nut and all has been good other than once in awhile I have to snug the packing nut a bit if I notice a drip.
 
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