Late V8 engine in Model A frame
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1931 flamingo
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No, never been done. Seriously now, you'll be better off posting this question on the HAMB. Also vern Tardel has a step by step book on how to build an AV8 roadster. Same would apply to any body style. Careful thou some of the dimensions given are not correct . others will chime in I'm sure.
Paul in CT
Paul in CT
Pete
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roflmao
Flathead V8,s have been installed in "A",s thousands of times over the years.I installed a 48 FH in a 28 OCPU back in 64.It had a 34 trans & "A" rear end.It had lots of power,but it just wasnt a model "A" any more so I quickly got tired of it & sold it. Been driving stock or "B" engined "A",s ever since.
George Miller
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I have done a few. I'm putting a 39 engine in a frame now. I have one with 51 engine in my roadster. You can use a 32 transmission and stock Model A rear. You will have to come up with some thing to hold the pedals. Use truck water pumps, and add 3 pipes to the radiator, install motor mount brackets front and rear. .
sturgis 39
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George
I think maybe plugging two pipes and adding four nozzles might work on the radiator. I am no expert on this subject.
SWO4rd
I think my model "A" engine has equal or greater torque than my flathead v/8. The reason for boxing frames was for circle track racers. This was because of the horizontal force created by the curves in the track. The torque from the engine is a vertical torque which is resisted by the tires and springs. The torque from the rear end is also vertical.
I will have to look at VanPelts site to see what the difference in torque is between the two types of engines.
I am not an expert.
A few minutes ago from VanPelt and the Ford Model "A" engine and Chassis manual the following numbers were retrieved.
The 49 to 53 Flathead has 194 ft lbs at 2000 rpm. The model "A" engine has 128 ft lb at 1000 rpm. I am just guessing but they seem close.
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George Miller
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I always plug the top radiator out let and add 2 to the top of the tank. Then add one to the bottom tank.
My hill climb engine with my home made over head, has much more torque and HP than the 51 V8. But the V8 is so smooth, and runs good at higher speeds.
Cool Hand Lurker
Well-known member
If you have a torque tube driveshaft the engine torque will be transferred to the rear axle. If you have an open driveshaft the engine torque will tend to rotate the engine and therefore transfer the torque to the front half of the frame, twisting the frame. I think.
sturgis 39
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Torque is torque. It dose not matter if the torque is in torque tube or an open drive shaft. The forces will be the same-vertical on the frame. If you are doing a wheelie you have no force on the front wheels to counter react the torque this could twist the frame.
Cool Hand Lurker
Well-known member
I guess I have to disagree with a couple your points. Maybe others can chime in here to comment.
"Torque is Torque." Right, except torque is not vertical. It is a twisting force. The only time you can say it is vertical is when it is transferred to the rear axle and then the twisting force is at right angles to the frame and the effect will be to push up on the frame by way of the springs or radius rods.
With a torque tube, there are solid connections between the engine, driveshaft, rear axle and wishbone. The engine torque or twisting force will be contained within that solid assembly until it does its work at the rear wheels.
With an open driveshaft there is no solid housing between the engine, driveshaft and rear axle. There are two open universal joints. The twisting force is transferred along the moving driveline but not along any solid housing.
Therefore, the engine is allowed to twist around the crankshaft and is only limited by the cushioned motor mounts. If there are solid rear motor mounts then the force is effectively transferred to the frame at that point. That force in turn will twist the frame at the front half. The effect will be lessened by a stiff frame, springs or shocks. There will be no vertical lift except that caused by the rear wheels.
For example, put an engine on the floor and start it up. Rev it hard. Get out of the way! Another example, hundreds of photos have been taken of dragsters coming off the line where the front end is off the ground but also twisting. The twisting is due to the torque of the engine.
Tom Wesenberg
Well-known member
"With a torque tube, there are solid connections between the engine, driveshaft, rear axle and wishbone. The engine torque or twisting force will be contained within that solid assembly until it does its work at the rear wheels."
True, except for the fact the rear of the ****** has the coupling that allows the engine to twist independent of the torque tube and rear end. The torque is thus transmitted to the frame through the rear motor mounts.
True, except for the fact the rear of the ****** has the coupling that allows the engine to twist independent of the torque tube and rear end. The torque is thus transmitted to the frame through the rear motor mounts.
Cool Hand Lurker
Well-known member
Thanks Tom, I had the strange feeling that my logic could be flawed somewhere! That's why I asked for comments. But that reinforces my point that the engine will transfer the twisting force to the frame. Thanks again.
sturgis 39
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Torque can only produce vertical forces on the frame. The frame is only supported vertically. Kind of like- "for every reaction there an opposite and equal reaction". If the force was not down or up vertically the car would tip over.
1931 flamingo
Well-known member
Regardless of anybody's defination of torque/direction/up/down/sideways, front, back/ A V8, be it flathes, smallblock, etc. A STOCK A frame with Hurst style front mounts w/ std Ford insulators is going to twist unless boxes/re-inforced. JMO
Paul in CT
Paul in CT
sturgis 39
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1931 flamingo
Well-known member
No, encolse the sides (basically making a box) as it's been done for years. Possibly do a search on the HAMB for "boxing". Most new aftermarket st/rod frames are rectangular tubing, or reproduction frames with "boxing" plates installed.
Paul in CT
Paul in CT
sturgis 39
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That is what I thought you would say for sure. This was done in the old days for dirt track cars and has carried over to street rods and hot rods. It is old thinking and fits in with thinking like slowing the flow in a radiator will cool the engine better. Boxing a frame does little or nothing to increase the vertical shear strength of a frame. Boxing a frame will strengthen the frame to resist horizontal shear forces.
Now explain to me what puts a horizontal load on a car frame.
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