Just how tough is the Model A engine?

Tom Wesenberg

Tom Wesenberg

Well-known member
Yesterday when that worn out water pump chewed up the radiator, the truck had been setting in the parking lot for at least 1/2 hour with both sides of the hood up when I drove in. I could still see the light whifts of smoke and rays of heat rising from the engine. The upper rear half of the engine was burned dry and completely free of any paint, grease, oil or dirt. It has the same look as a block that had just been red hot and pulled from a fire. I felt the radiator and it was cold because there was no coolant to circulate. After a bit a guy came over and shot the engine with his heat gun. The engine was still 354*. The owner said the truck was making a racket and had to get towed for the last couple blocks into the parking lot. When the flatbed arrived the owner started the truck and drove it on. It actually sounded OK and didn't knock or smoke.

I would have guessed this engine was doomed.
 
It's tough! Doesn't even have enough poop to blow it's self up.
I can tell ya this, your not going to blister the head off going all out across the desert for a few days.

Anyone ever blow up a green painted Clinton vertical up right one lung 3 hp lawn mower engine? Dad gave me just such an engine and I bolted it to some 2 x 4's in the back yard and fueled it with a big can of gas hosed right into the regular gas cap. Blocked open the throttle all the way [some where beyond 3600 rpms] and went to school. Came back and she was still happily running. I finally killed it by pulling the oil plug and let the 1/2 qt of oil run out onto the ground while she ran for a few more hours...same as a Model "A' but 3 more cylinders. Tough as nails if you keep 'em cool.

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Truly amazing Tom. Find out what oil he uses because I want to get a hold of some. In my opinion the oil held it together.
 
Betch'ya it's dead! I had one a customer installed and ran without water in his excitement to drive his car. When he brought it to me the paint was burned completely off the block. He said he drove the car about 10 mmiles and it just started knocking and just quit. While he waited for his wife to come get him with a trailer the engine cooled off and started just as if nothing had happened and he drove it home where it quit again the same way.

I took the motor apart and found the pistons scored beyond belief. The rings were stuck in the lands and scored also. I rebored the engine, inspected everything and put it back together with new pistons and rings and it was fine and is still running.
 
its amazing that it started but has to be internal problems with that heat. i bet the oil smelled pretty good also
 
James Rogers said:
Betch'ya it's dead! I had one a customer installed and ran without water in his excitement to drive his car. When he brought it to me the paint was burned completely off the block. He said he drove the car about 10 mmiles and it just started knocking and just quit. While he waited for his wife to come get him with a trailer the engine cooled off and started just as if nothing had happened and he drove it home where it quit again the same way.

I took the motor apart and found the pistons scored beyond belief. The rings were stuck in the lands and scored also. I rebored the engine, inspected everything and put it back together with new pistons and rings and it was fine and is still running.
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My thoughts exactly, but I was surprized that it didn't smoke, miss or make any noise. I saw an engine overheat last summer and seize the rings in just a few minutes, as well as score the pistons and leave a few heat marks in the cylinder walls.
 
I know of a case where the owner drained the oil and then forgot to refill it. He drove it for several miles before it overheated and locked up. He added the missing oil and continued to drive it. It was still doing ok the last I heard. They don't give up easily but I suspect the more worn they are the harder they are to hurt.
 
Jerry Parr WI said:
I know of a case where the owner drained the oil and then forgot to refill it. He drove it for several miles before it overheated and locked up. He added the missing oil and continued to drive it. It was still doing ok the last I heard. They don't give up easily but I suspect the more worn they are the harder they are to hurt.
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Ten years ago I took my '97 Blazer to a quick change oil place. They forgot to put the oil in it. Got out in the street and heard the lifters tapping. Looked down at the oil pressure gauge. Zero. Pulled a U turn, shut off the motor and coasted back into the quick change shop through the exit door into the bay I had just left. The tech came out and apologized for forgeting to put the oil in. The manager insisted there was oil in it, but that the filter was "cavitating." Funny that the techs couldn't drain any oil out. Well anyhow they put on a new filter, filled it with oil and to make along story short, I've put another hundred thousand miles on it and she's still going strong! I guess even a Chevy can take a minute or two of no oil and still survive!
 
i worked at a dealer during the whole "cash for clunkers" rage. the way they wanted us to kill them was to drain all the oil out, put in a quart or two of this liquid glass stuff and run them at about 1500 rpms until they quit. well, after the first dozen or so we inevitably got bored and started to "deviate" a little from the instructions we were given. we would drain the oil, and hold the throttle wide open without adding any of the solution they had given us. (this made the "end" much more dramatic than with the liquid glass in it) i was shocked to see how long some of them went before quitting. some of the older straight six fords went for 10 minutes or more before giving up the ghost.
 
i had a 41 dodge one time it had a rod knocking hard 1/2 tank gas i put a brick on the gas wide open ran out of gas so i just sent it to the happy mopar land
 
Well, I think some good barner out there should block the throttle open on a good A engine and give us a report on his scientific experiment. Get good footage and sound for us. Or maybe 500 or so of us could have a drawing and the guy with the lucky number gets to provide the excitement. Or a few of us could just foot the cost of a $300.oo engine and make a video. There is a credible sounding story circulating in my area of a guy proving a worn out old stock flat head V8 could turn 9,000 RPM on his engine stand. If you get a chance, read how Frank Lockhart scientifically tested the wheels and tires for an attempted 300 mph run at daytona Beach in 1927. This was the test done in the basement of the Stutz factory before the Daytona runs.
 
Did you see the pictures of the results of Frank's test? They look like a war zone.He had that wheel and tire spinning on the back of the Stutz engine at what would have been over 300 MPH on the car.He hid behind a post and fired a shotgun at the tire.That heavy engine went to pieces and parts of it went through the ceiling,walls,like a bomb went off.Back then,how else would you have tested what would happen with a blowout at 300 MPH?That is what killed him in the end too,a clamshell cut a tire at nearly 300 MPH.
 
Dennis Piranio Antique Engine rebuilder did a work shop here in the DFW area where he put a Model A engine together with a bunch of worn out parts laying around the shop.

The idea was to run it without oil or water and hold a contest to guess how long it would take to self destruct. They fired it up and it ran for about 6-7 minutes and in the last minute just started slowing down until it finally stopped. It was glowing hot, but once it cooled down, it just fired up again.

Most likely not good for the rings or bores and would surely be a smoker after that, but it didn't explode or anything. Seemed pretty tough to me at the time.
 
Not a Model A engine...but a 2 cylinder Honda lawn mower engine...

One of my buddies got interrupted while trying to change the oil in his Honda rider mower. He had drained the oil out, and had put the drain plug back in when he got interrupted. Next weekend he cranked up the mower and proceeded to mow all his large front and side yards (he lives on a corner lot), and had started on his back yard when the Honda just started to lose power. He had to push it back to the garage and when he checked the oil, obviously the dipstick was dry as a Death Valley creek bed. That's when he realized what he had done. He filled the oil back up and let the engine cool down. Next day he cranked it up and proceeded to finish his back yard. That was seven years ago and he still has the same mower with the same engine. Runs like a top, uses no oil, and seems to be indestructible.

BTW...he was using Mobil 1 10W30 synthetic.

Sounds like a Ripley's "Believe It Or Not" story...but I've seen it and it's all true.
 
Wow:

Some amazing stories. Gives me much more confidence in the engine in my "A".

Thanks for passing the stories on. Would sure enjoy reading more of them.

Best regards,

Thom IV
 
Keith True; Did you see the pictures of the results of Frank's test?

Hummmmm what test's I went back and can't find the rest of the story.

Would this be Frank Oddo, the Flathead King?
Or Kenny Kloth record holder for the fastest flathead at 145.306 mph at the Salt Flats with 5.8:1 compression and 267 cuin. Ran on Mobil 1 5-30 oil.

One day at Illinois State U my 1970 Ford Maverick 200 cuin six lost water and got hot and I had to push the accelerator pedal to the floor just to keep her spinning. I pull up to the driveway and released the pedal she was locked up tighter than a ***** in church. Turned the key would not move. Next day and for years after it was fine. No smoke and good compression.

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I had a lawnmower experience also. Drained the oil from a Briggs & Stratton powered mower and discovered I had no new oil around. Went to buy some and returned to find that My son had already mowed the lawn (8,000 sq.ft.) with a dry crankcase. The engine was so hot I could smell it across the yard. I filled it with oil, let it cool, and it started right up as if nothing happened. That was 10 years ago and it still runs well.
 
I've been watching this thread and thinking there are some tough engines out there...however, I think it is the situation, not necessarily the specific engine design. I had a dis-simular lawnmower experience (rather go-cart). The engine developed a small oil leak. I was watching it pretty close and we didn't want to quit playing that day, so I kept checking it. Well it must have got to low and it eventually threw a rod.

By situation rather than design, I mean if an engine has any scoring, or cyliner wear, or it is very dirty, things that make it a little less than perfectly smooth, then a no-oil situation is not going to fare well. If everything is worn well, smooth and clean, then neat stories develope.

All that having been said, as design goes, I think the ol' Model A engine design is 'tougher' than most.
 
Skip,that was a response to somebody that mentioned Frank Lockhart testing his tires for his run at the LSR in 1927.It was brought up when somebody else brought up 'scientific'testing of the Model A engine.Talk of that led to of Frank's 'scientific'testing of his tires by bolting them to a Stutz engine and blasting them with a shotgun while spinning at 300 MPH.I have a book with the pictures of the destruction in the basement of the Stutz factory after the engine tore loose and started to run around the basement.I can't find which book it is in right now.The book,The Golden Age of the American Racing car by Griffith Borgeson has the story,but that one does not have the pictures.They may be in the ghost written autobiography of Tommy Milton.
 
Tom Wesenberg said:
Yesterday when that worn out water pump chewed up the radiator, the truck had been setting in the parking lot for at least 1/2 hour with both sides of the hood up when I drove in. I could still see the light whifts of smoke and rays of heat rising from the engine. The upper rear half of the engine was burned dry and completely free of any paint, grease, oil or dirt. It has the same look as a block that had just been red hot and pulled from a fire. I felt the radiator and it was cold because there was no coolant to circulate. After a bit a guy came over and shot the engine with his heat gun. The engine was still 354*. The owner said the truck was making a racket and had to get towed for the last couple blocks into the parking lot. When the flatbed arrived the owner started the truck and drove it on. It actually sounded OK and didn't knock or smoke.

I would have guessed this engine was doomed.
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When I was in High School in the early 50's a friend's father bought him a 29 "A" sport coupe and he wanted to put a V8 in it. His father told him that they would discuss it when the "A" engine quit. The next saturday we all gathered at another kids house and proceeded to drain the oil and water and fired it up. He drove it around the block several time and it froze up. After it cooled enough it started again and he did the same thing. After several hours of this he gave up and put the oil back in and filled the radiator with water and drove it home. I spoke to him last year and he couldn't remember how long it ran after that. But they sold the car and it was running when they sold it.
 
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