Japan Black

[CA Victoria]

I am experimenting with Japan Black and am happy with the recipe thus far, It has a good consistency and flows well. The product is brushed on and oven baked.
Using Gilsonite and lamp black produces a rich high gloss but I am after a matte black finish.
Anyone with experience making their own paint?
I would like to know how to flatten the sheen.
The base is BLO & turpentine.

Thank you in advance-

 

[J Franklin]

Put it out in the sun and weather and it will flatten right out in a few months.

 

[CA Victoria]

lol-I am looking for a more time efficient process-T.

 

[art ebeling]

Tim, What are you going to paint with the Japan black? Art

 

[CA Victoria]

Hello Art,
I rebuild Zenith carburetors. The selection of paints have dwindled that are durable , fuel proof, and in a convenient spray can at least in California.
POR15 is pretty tough but high gloss. Epoxy primer has been recommended, I have some left over from the 35 pickup project that I will try when the rain lets up. Using an original finish like Japaning is appealing to get an original look. It too is pretty glossy. It takes 10-15 minutes per unit to paint and 2 hours to oven bake. I learned that talc powder is a flattener but it softens the paint hardness.
I am going to try brushing the Japan finish with a solvent today to see if I can dull the sheen.
Other wise still searching.
Pictures are of the carbs I used the gilsonite japan formula on. Tim

 

[art ebeling]

I use this Brodak product. It dries fast to a satin type finish. It has been on my Victoria for two years and fuel doesn’t affect it at all. Art

 

[CA Victoria]

Thanks Art.
I placed an order.
Model airplane dope has been off the shelf for years here in Ca.
Manufactures usu won’t ship to Ca. will see if it “flys”.

Tim

 

[art ebeling]

Tim, I brushed it on and it looks great. Art

 

[CA Victoria]

Agreed Art, the butal dope is tough stuff.
Did you bake it or just air dry?

 

[art ebeling]

I just air dried it.

 

[rotorwrench]

Flattening additives are used by a lot of paint manufacturers to change the gloss characteristics from high to low levels. The stuff is a cloudy looking liquid that has no color. A look at the data sheets may give an idea about it's chemical formula.

 

[CA Victoria]

thanks rotorsrench, i found one brand so far by Tampco.....checking on it.

Art, thanks again. by going direct to Brodak i was able to order the dope. i had tried unsucessfully to get it before, 2nd hand thru model airplane suppliers. I found out that Randolph makes it for Brodak. The Randolph brand is available through aircraft restoration suppliers.

 

[art ebeling]

Tim, We always seem to be on the same projects. Art

 

[art ebeling]

thanks rotorsrench, i found one brand so far by Tampco.....checking on it.

Art, thanks again. by going direct to Brodak i was able to order the dope. i had tried unsucessfully to get it before, 2nd hand thru model airplane suppliers. I found out that Randolph makes it for Brodak. The Randolph brand is available through aircraft restoration suppliers.

Tim, Have you tried the Brodak yet?

 

[rackops]

The best (and correct) way to create a matte finish is to add amber rosin into the Japanning mix. I personally prefer the crushed rosin used for ballet shoes as it tends to dissolve faster than chunks of rosin.

Keep in mind that the rosin does require 1) a lot of time or 2) heating of the mixture (or both) to fully dissolve. My preference is to leave my mixture in the mixing jar out in the sun as it nicely warms it and cools it during the day, preventing any heating spikes. I also once blew up a glass jar filled with a plating mixture while attempting to heat it on a burner and have been too afraid of doing that again with a mix of Japanning liquid.

 

[CA Victoria]

Racops,
thank you for the tip!
the japan recepie i am using comes out to about 8oz. how much amber do you recomend for starters?
i have a coffee cup warmer that will work well to warm the mixture.
Art,
i bought a few pints of the Brodak Jet Black. i am dragging my feet using it.....i have a few carb bodies ready to paint. my plan is to make a couple of stands to hold the carbs for painting/drying. should have time next week and i will share the results. thanks again. i originally cringed at hand painting carb bodies but it really doesnt take long to knock one out. (it good therapy)

 

[CA Victoria]

A followup question on rosin. the ballet rosin is a lighter color (grade).
is a darker color preferable?
do you use the rosin in place of lamp black?

info copied from rosin-factory.com:
Rosin varies in color, according to the age of the tree from which the turpentine is drawn and the degree of heat applied in distillation, from an opaque, almost pitch-black substance through grades of brown and yellow to an almost perfectly transparent colorless glassy mass. The commercial grades are numerous, ranging by letters from A, the darkest, to N, extra pale, superior to which are W, window glass, and WW, water white varieties, the latter having about three times the value of the common qualities.

 

[CA Victoria]

I painted three Zenith bodies today and although this thread is about Japaning some readers may be intersted in the results of the Brodak paint Art recomended. This product is a "10" in my book.

 

[art ebeling]

Tim, I am glad you like it. It will dull to just the right”Japan Black” Gas will not affect it. Art

 

[jimvette59]

I have seen a flatting product in the West Marine store when painting my boat. If is no West Marine store in your area you can probably get them on line. JMO Jim T.