Is this pitting on the block something to worry about?

30aadoodlebug

30aadoodlebug

Senior Member
So I pulled the head off my 30 Tudor today to change the head gasket. I knew that there was going to be a water leak (found this out from the barn gurus from an early post and some trouble shooting), but there was a ton of water in there. Aside from this, where the gasket had let go, there was a significant rust stain on the block above the engine number. Upon cleaning the block, there is a small area that was fairly pitted from the rust. Is this anything I should worry about? Or should I just throw the new gasket on and be done with it?
 

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30aadoodlebug said:
So I pulled the head off my 30 Tudor today to change the head gasket. I knew that there was going to be a water leak (found this out from the barn gurus from an early post and some trouble shooting), but there was a ton of water in there. Aside from this, where the gasket had let go, there was a significant rust stain on the block above the engine number. Upon cleaning the block, there is a small area that was fairly pitted from the rust. Is this anything I should worry about? Or should I just throw the new gasket on and be done with it?
Click to expand...

Head gasket sealer (copper coat, etc) on head gasket should fill/seal those tiny areas/pits.
However, are the two mating areas flat enough to get a good seal :confused:
 
Do it right. Do a precise flatness check on both the engine deck and head. If they are not flat, mill the deck and head.. Assuming there is enough metal left on both..

Why even consider the "gookenpucky?"
 
Thanks for the info, because this is all great advice.

Larry, both the head and deck are dead straight when I checked them with a straight edge. The only area that showed light through was the section with pitting. There appears to be more than enough meat on both the deck and the head to plane them, so it looks like I'm head to the shop this afternoon after work. Thanks again for all the help guys!
 
The deck looks damaged by someone how tried prying the head off. Heads should be removed with a puller not pried off when stuck. Its hard to see in the pictures but the cylinders look questionable? What do you expect out of this engine? It looks like time for a rebuild.
 
Ron, both the deck and pistons seem fine on our assesment (I'll try for a better shot, but it's in a dark barn). I removed the head using 2 home made pullers from old spark plugs and some 18 guage rod (perhaps damage is from a previous gasket job?). The engine is original to the car, only has 95,000 on it (so we've been told, the od states this also), and the wear inside lines up with that estimation. That being said, I'm always looking for a second, more educated opinion.
 
Which was first? The low level of the block? Or the pitting? Probably the low level of the block because something had to let the water in there to cause the pitting. You aren't going to like my reply, Pull the engine, Yank the studs (No easy job), have both the head and block resurfaced. Reassemble in reverse order! OR you can "mickey mouse" it, A "Patchatini" if you will! I can't say how long JB weld or similar goo will hold up under fire/combustion. Maybe it's OK! I don't know. I'm pretty sure that the gasket's days will be numbered. The way a "Burn't valve" is created is to hold the valve off the seat and let the gases blow through the gap. Those gases act like an acetylene torch and burn away metal. And the gap can be pretty small! This wall be the death knell for the block till eventually it is too far gone to repair.
Terry



30aadoodlebug said:
Thanks for the info, because this is all great advice.

Larry, both the head and deck are dead straight when I checked them with a straight edge. The only area that showed light through was the section with pitting. There appears to be more than enough meat on both the deck and the head to plane them, so it looks like I'm head to the shop this afternoon after work. Thanks again for all the help guys!
Click to expand...
 
Look at your pictures #2, 4, and 5, and you will see that even though the block has metal in that area, the head is open, so the gasket is unsupported there. In other words, those pits won't hurt a thing because you have smooth solid metal where the head pinches the gasket. That odd shaped opening in the head was probably part of the core support during casting.

As long as the engine is out and the head is off check the cylinders for wear, and proceed accordingly.
Why was the head pulled to start with?
How did the engine run?
 
Hi Tom, the head was pulled to install a new gasket. The engine ran fine, but when put under a light load (small grade) there was a considerable loss of power. Once she leveled out, so did the power. I have not pulled the engine itself; just the head and water pump. I did wonder if some of the imperfections had to do with casting and you seem to have clarified that.
 
Tom brings a good point, that area doesn't look critical with respect to the combustion chambers, it may have some weeping above the number stamp.
 
30aadoodlebug said:
Hi Tom, the head was pulled to install a new gasket. The engine ran fine, but when put under a light load (small grade) there was a considerable loss of power. Once she leveled out, so did the power. I have not pulled the engine itself; just the head and water pump. I did wonder if some of the imperfections had to do with casting and you seem to have clarified that.
Click to expand...

It really comes down to what you expect from the vehicle? How much and how far do you want to drive it? How much are you willing to spend etc. What shape is the car is it ratty unrestored? Is it worthy of sinking $5000 into the engine?
 
The car is in newfound barn condition, and awaiting a full restoration. It sat in a barn from 1956 until 2015 when i got it. It was stored properly by the man who had it: on stands, gas tank was filled with oil not gas or left empty, and much to everyones amazement sans bullet holes! There is no rust to speak of, just a bit on the passenger running board. I have been driving it short drives here and there around town when the weather is good, but nothing over 10 miles a trip. I dont have the money to sink into a pro engine rebuild (starving law school student), but do have acess to a full professional machine shop as well as professionals at the shop who are willing to help in the full restoration.
 
How come some here say .. simple job to deck the block ?

Does this not require pulling the engine and stripping it down to a bare block , then decking it and then washing it out thoroughly and then reassembling along with a complete new gasket set and every other sin you found while apart .....

Or do some think here, you can just remove the studs and stuff rags down the holes and plane it in car .....?
 
pooch said:
How come some here say .. simple job to deck the block ?

Does this not require pulling the engine and stripping it down to a bare block , then decking it and then washing it out thoroughly and then reassembling along with a complete new gasket set and every other sin you found while apart .....

Or do some think here, you can just remove the studs and stuff rags down the holes and plane it in car .....?
Click to expand...

Hey pooch,
EXACTLY ! He did not state that the engine was out of car and did not indicate any intent to do so. Ask about some tiny pits and said block is flat. Pulling engine and haveing it prepared properly (machined/cleaned), as you suggest, is no easy and/or cheap process ! Yeah, 'do it right' is pretty obvious for anything done in life...or don't do it at all,eh :)
 
I don't hear of any reason for a full teardown at this point. Weak spark can cause loss of power when accelerating on a hill. A plugged carb jet of passage could also cause trouble, as could a slow closing valve. I'd put the head back on and check the spark for at least 1/4" hot blue spark. A can of Sea Foam in the oil can help with sticking valves. When it started to loose power did you pull the choke a little to see if it helped.
Do you know for sure the timing is correct?
 
Also a loss of power can be from fuel delivery issues, crud blocking something anywhere from the tank to carb jets and or ports. Just stuff to check.
 
Tom Wesenberg said:
I don't hear of any reason for a full teardown at this point. Weak spark can cause loss of power when accelerating on a hill. A plugged carb jet of passage could also cause trouble, as could a slow closing valve. I'd put the head back on and check the spark for at least 1/4" hot blue spark. A can of Sea Foam in the oil can help with sticking valves. When it started to loose power did you pull the choke a little to see if it helped.
Do you know for sure the timing is correct?
Click to expand...

Best advice I read so far.
 
Well, since the engine is out of the car and the head's off it already, where are the big expenses? It costs me $30 bucks to shave a head. I don't know what the costs are for decking a block. I doubt it's much more than $200. As usual, most of the work is in the set up, getting it up on the machine, aligning it. The cutting takes minutes. I don't see why it can't be stuffed with with rags and cut down. If it's done with care and attention to block or cover all all possible entrances for grit. The hardest part will be removing the studs, they can be stubborn as hell. Additionally, I would check it for cracks especially it the area of the pitting. I don't know where this figure of $5000 came from, but I would think it would be less than a tenth of that.
Terry
 
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