Is This Normal?

M

Mike Crehan

Member
I have an engine I bought from the US years ago - I think it is H&H. It has been stored for years. Now one of my friends has blown his engine up so I want to lend him mine for the summer to keep him running. I pulled the sump (pan) off tonight to check it was all as it should be in the crankcase.

Everything looked good - counterweighted crank, new cam, new timing gears, new oil pump, nice looking rods. Everything nicely covered in start up lube.

There are copper pipes coming from the oil pump / centre main area to the front and rear mains I thought these were fed by gravity from drillings from the valve chest? Even if all the mains are pressure fed there are still holes in the big ends so I assume these are being lubed in the normal way by dipping in the troughs in the sump tray rather than through a drilled crank from the mains?

Big valves and a 7.5 Lion III head with twin Stromberg 97s, Mallory distributor and a hot cam. Will be interesting to see how it runs.

I've got a side plate with an oil filter from Mike's but it is not like the ones they sell now. There is what looks like a piece of copper pipe with a slit in it - not sure what that is for and I'm a bit hesitant to use it if some other conversion has already been done which may not work with the filter conversion.

Help (PS = this is all new to me, I own / have owned all sorts of cars and bikes from Austin 7s to veteran cars with WW1 aero engines, 50cc racers to Ducati 900s but never a Model A - can't think why now as it looks to be a fabulous engine in all sorts of ways).
 
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/538288_10150991644515932_2117688626_n.jpg

Not very clear but you can see one of the copper pipes- is this a standard part or has a modifier been in there?
538288_10150991644515932_2117688626_n.jpg
 
I've never seen a pipe like that, but I have always worked on absolutely stock engines. This would not be in an unmodified engine. How long ago was this engine done, do you know?
 
You have pressure to the mains, rods, can't tell with out seeing if the crank is drilled. This is OK, but in my opinion, steel pipping should be used, as brass, and copper can and will crack. As far as the Quality of work, there are only two ways to find out, disassemble and check, or run it. Looks good from here, but I am a long ways off, I don't like the white grease!
 
I agree with Herm about the white grease. I used to use it for engine assembly, but then the engine was put into service almost right away. I find it dries out, and now I use Mystik JT-6 high temp grease for everything.
 
Thanks for the replies. I don't know what the white grease is - I don't use it over here in England. On the other hand this engine has been sitting around since at least 2005 (how did that happen?) and it stillturns over by hand and everyithing inside looks good so perhaps it has done its job OK.aps

I only ever seem to see painted internals on US engines, it isnot something I normally do.

I have made a new gasket and put the sump back now.I decided not to disturb the big end caps at this stage, I think we will just run it for a bit in my freinds car a see how it goes.

I am still trying to find info on this oil filter kit I have - I'll take some pictures this morning and post them later.
 
The white grease is probably Lubri-Plate assembly lube. I used to use it but found like Tom it dries out and will plug the tubes causing failures if the motor is not put into service right away.I now use Federal Mogul assembly lube. It is like honey and it dissipates into the run in oil.

I paint all the internal surfaces with a high temp electrical varnish like gilsonite which was developed for this.

Does the oil system look like this example? I believe this was done by H&H but am not sure. I would figure there would be a oil leak at the rear seal area since I don't know of a modified seal that would work to keep that from happening. I don't see any way to regulate the oil pressure except for an extra hole to allow some oil to escape the bearing. There is no "regulated" way for oil to be controlled.
 

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that could be an H&H, as they use Glyptal to paint the crank case. But so do some others shops. If there are colored bands painted on the camshaft up front, that's H&H's way of distinguishing which grind they used.

I shy away from copper tubing too, but you will hear proponents of that as well..
 
I used the side cover oil filter from Mike's with the copper slit pipe. It starved the center exhaust valve and ruined the valve guide and seat.They have since discontinued it.

John
 
Thanks for all the helpful advice - I've got a bit behind because we have been away with our other hobby - showing our Irish Terrier.

The plumbing on my engine is slightly different in that as far as I can work out it relies on an internal drilling to the centre main and a take-off to the front and rear whereas the H&H one above has a take-off to the centre main.

Curiosity got the better of me and I took a big end cap off - shell bearings (I think you guys call them inserted) and drilled crank to get pressure feed from the mains.

I found an old email and this is not an H&H engine - that was the other engine I had which I then sold to a friend who put a rod through his block. This came from a guy called McNab but I can't find anything else.

I am not sure what to do with the filter - I am reluctant to run unfiltered oil with shell bearings but I do not like the idea of causing oil starvation to the valves.

I think that I probably have quite a nice basis for a sound engine to develop - my friend is going to use it for a while until he gets his rebuilt but eventually it is going to be powering my trials car which is a 1928 Peugeot 190 which started life with a 700cc engine!
 
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inserts should be run with an oil filter. They have no imbed-ability like babbitt does, and small grit can wedge into the copper base and score your crankshaft journal. I'd spring for a new style full flow filter integral with the valve cover.
 
I don't want to start too wild a thread drift but from what I can see there are basically 3 types of oil filter conversions out there - the early one (like I have) from Mike's with the vertical filter, the later type from Mikes with the horizontal filter that screws straight onto the side cover and the type that goes on the timing cover.

I cannot see any difference between these in the way they work. The early type that I have is a bit rustic in the way the fiter mount is fastened to the original sidecover but that won't alter how it deals with the oil. The later type is neater but if the filter does not have some sort of anti drain valve I can see that it may drain down while the car is parked and potentially delay supply on start up and might be messy at filter change time.

I think I probably have all the parts I need with the current kit to machine a new flat side cover from a piece of aluminium which will then allow me to fix the filter head neatly to the side cover.

I still need to work out what I am supposed to do with that split copper bush (including perhaps remaking it - it looks a bit nasty, sort of like someone cut a piece off a bit of copper pipe and then hack sawed a slit in it!).


The timing cover type does not seem to be as well thought off.

I do not mind buying a new kit as it seems cheap compared to having to fix a damaged bottom end but I would want to be sure it was an improvement over what I already have.
 
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