Is the engine rebuilt?

T

tim54889

Senior Member
What would be the easiest way to verify that engine was actually rebuilt? Looking at a potential purchase. Seller has no receipts. He was told it was all rebuilt when he bought it 8 years ago. I know pull the pan or head, don't want to do that. Light down the spark plug hole? Any suggestions?
 
seller was told it was rebuilt when he bought it and now the same story is being told plus the use it has received over the past ownership. assume its an older engine when figuring out your purchase price...
what type of oil has been run in it detergent or non? if non it will need a clean out.

do the numbers match??
 
Nothing short of a complete tear down will give you the complete picture. A leakdown test (not just compression) will give some indication of the ability to run, but you will still have no idea as to how sunk the valve seats are, how sloppy the guides are, the babbitt condition, the cam wear, etc.

I would base my purchase on the assumption that an engine R&R is needed. Even if there is a rebuild receipt, without detailed specs as to exactly what was done it just becomes sales talk.
 
The seller never ran it. Would an engine have a complete rebuild and then be painted red? This is why I am suspicious. What other suggestions?
 
was it run by the previous owner before this one who actually rebuilt it? you never mentioned that it has not been started by this owner...how was the engine stored all these years???/have the cylinders been kept lubricated and turned periodically?? all info and details are necessary as it makes it hard when we have to squeeze it out
 
Why not do a compression test anyway?
This would at least tell you to eliminate it as a tired engine.
What color were Model A engines used for farm implements or industrial use?
I believe they MIGHT have been red.
 
if its a brand new never started engine the piston tops should be brand new and shiny as well as the cylinder walls with a fresh cross hatch pattern looking in the plug hole with a boroscope. the valves should also look fresh...
then knowing that you would need to pull the pan and inspect the babitt and or bearings to see what has been done on the bottom end... assuming your not going through all of this figure its an older engine..
agree with Mike on doing a leak down test which will give you a good indication of overall engine health.
no receipts no dice
 
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I side with Mike also, PLUS who did the rebuild? There's probably no way to find out but I've seen a number of 'rebuilt' engines that are only so in name only. Yes, 'selling talk' nothing more. Unless you have a Herm Kohnke, Ora Schwalm, or James Rogers engine for example, who truly know what they are doing, it's a crap shoot. Motor will undoubtably need to be taken down and gone through by an expert.
 
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tim54889 said:
The seller never ran it. Would an engine have a complete rebuild and then be painted red? This is why I am suspicious. What other suggestions?
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I wouldn't trust anyone that would pant a Model A engine red to rebuild a Model A engine. If it wasn't run there could be all kinds of hidden problems. The price has a lot to do with the decision, what is he asking for he engine?

Charlie Stephens
 
If you are willing to spend money on it why don't you want to at least pull the head and pan? There are only a few bolts and nuts holding them on.
 
Pay as though the engine is not rebuilt, but I'd oil the cylinders and run the engine to see if it doesn't work fine as is. I think SEARS rebuilt engines were always painted red, and I don't know who rebuilt engines for Sears, nor do I know the quality.

I have a garage sale find red engine that was said to be rebuilt by the seller's dad, who was a mechanic. The engine is in a contraption called a deer hauler (also red), that his dad made years ago to pull deer out of the woods. When I first started the engine several mice came flying out in pieces through the open wishbone hole. The engine purrs as nice as can be, and I will stick it in my 29 Tudor.
 
The engine is in a car. If you were selling a car you probably won't let a potential buyer take it apart. I'am just trying to figure out how to verify if it is a newly rebuilt engine. And your're right, to some people an engine rebuild is a shot of paint.
 
tim54889 said:
The engine is in a car. If you were selling a car you probably won't let a potential buyer take it apart. I'am just trying to figure out how to verify if it is a newly rebuilt engine. And your're right, to some people an engine rebuild is a shot of paint.
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Hey tim,
Well, at least you have the first thing that you need to keep your ego and wallet healthy, i.e.- a good sense of scepticizm (?) :) ! That is, if it looks like a pig, smells like a pig and has been painted with red lipstick like a pig...well :rolleyes:.

Your analogy to examining a 'CAR' is not valid here, IMO. I can look over a car in close detail and make a educated decision on that basis. If this guy refuses to acknowledge the value (to him and you) of your disassembling the involved engine....leave this pig in it's sty, would be my action.

Your exam could be as simple as pulling the head AND oil pan, to get enough info. Question is, is his asking price that of a 'rebuilt' engine...or that for pig in poke ?
 
That's just it, the price is reflecting that there is a rebuilt engine in it. If I have to rebuild the engine then it needs to be a couple K less. Just wish I bought those see thru glasses they had on the back of comic books!
 
So, it sounds like the complete car is for sale, and that'ss what you are maybe going to buy. At first I thought you were just buying an engine, possibly from a restored car being rodded. If the car is for sale, I'd think the seller would have the engine running, or let you get it running, before the sale. Without hearing the engine run, the sale price would drop by at least a couple thousand. It just isn't that hard to fire up the engine, unless it threw a rod, stripped a cam gear or ???
 
xRay-Glasses-Comic-Book-Ad.jpg
 
The seller "says" it was rebuilt when he got it 8 years ago. I'm also hearing that it wasn't run after the seller got it. Pull a spark plug...is it bright-shiny new? Buy or rent a bore scope and run it down through the plug holes. You'll have your answer right then. If things are shiny and new in the bores then maybe the price can come up a bit. Without knowing who did the rebuild you should still be skeptical. A reputable builder may have done the work or kids in shop class may have built it for a project. If you've got shiny new parts then those probably aren't parts that you'd have to purchase again if you wanted to do a tear-down and rebuild. Passing a leak-down test would also add some value.
Another way you could play it is tell they guy that you'll pay $X as it sits (core value) and that if he lets you remove the head and pan and you confirm what he's saying is true you'll give him his asking price and say you'll put it back together if the deal falls through. If he's confident that his assertions are true...he won't have a problem. If he's hiding something, he's probably not going to want you snooping around the innards.
 
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