installing new starter contact button ?

Tom Bellfoy

Tom Bellfoy

Senior Member
I'm planning on replacing the usual Model A starter switch assembly (A11450) with a solenoid switch mounted directly on the starter. This can be done either of two ways.
1. drilling and tapping the original starter contact button (A11102) to hold a battery power cable, or
2. by replacing the contact button with a (T5111) starter terminal stud kit.

I have researched the "How to restore" and "Technically Speaking" series of books along with the Les Andrews volume 1& 2 books and have not found any information or instructions on changing the starter field coils since this is where the original field coils are pressed into or soldered into the bottom of the contact button.? Keep in mind I dont want to change the coils I just want to change the bronze contact which they are attached to.

How much heat will it take to unsolder or solder the field coils onto the contact button ?

You guys who install new field coils - Would you kindly tell us how we can accomplish this task without damage to the coils
Thanks so much
 
This is what I use.

Bob
 

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I now have a 600 watt iron, it does a very quick job ---so quick that the heat doesn't travel very far down the wire

The starter I used for the Smiths compresser already had a conversion when I got it, a heavy wire was just soldered to the top of the contact

The other pic is a V8 starter stud ---i don't know if it is intended for the same sized hole though.
 

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I mounted a solenoid direct on the firewall just to the left of the starter. If I remember correctly I took the starter switch apart and reversed the long copper strip sop that it always was in contact with the starter button on the starter itself, then put everything back together and it worked fine. The big advantage of doing it this way is that you can revert back to original very easily - which is exactly what I did!!

Dick
 
Dick Deegan said:
I mounted a solenoid direct on the firewall just to the left of the starter. If I remember correctly I took the starter switch apart and reversed the long copper strip sop that it always was in contact with the starter button on the starter itself, then put everything back together and it worked fine. The big advantage of doing it this way is that you can revert back to original very easily - which is exactly what I did!!

Dick
Click to expand...
Same here!
Bill W.
 
I was going to suggest the same thiing Dick Degan did. Seems to be the best and easily reversible.

If you don't do it that way, then I'd solder a wire or copper strap to the top of the copper button. I use a WEN 250 watt soldering gun to solder on the button. You can also use a heavy soldering copper as Bob showed, or iron as Kurt mentioned. I made a heavy brass soldering tip for my propane torch, and that really works nice also.
 
700RPM: - I've seen the results of a starter switch welding itself together and blowing up a 6V battery in a Model A when the driver could not disconnect it fast enough, He was lucky enough to rinse the battery acid out of his eyes in due time. As for myself I've had at least five hazardous moments trying to disconnect my battery when the contacts welded the circuit closed. Now I'm sure if I was to purchase a new starter switch every few years instead of filing the contacts smooth, It would solve the problem. But I've had enough
I would like to keep everything stock but safety and reliability comes first with me.
Kurt: - interesting pic of the wire soldered onto the contact button, the second pic looks just like the stud in the T5111 kit.
 
Dick:
I must say that would be a better way to deal with the problem as it would still look original except for the solenoid but that could easily be hidden. Great idea. We are all fortunate to have this forum for information.
thanks to all.
 
stovepipe said:
I've seen the results of a starter switch welding itself together and blowing up a 6V battery in a Model A when the driver could not disconnect it fast enough...
Click to expand...
Blowing up batteries? It sounds like you could have a starter problem. I can only guess that your starter draws too many amps... maybe has internal shorts or poor connections? Or maybe you're cranking the engine with the spark advanced? Or cranking the engine too long? Or using cheap starter switches? All that could lead to your early contact failure. You might consider looking into that before tacking on a Band-Aid solenoid.

If you have a starter problem, the solenoid contacts could fail just like your switches have. Just something to consider...
 
IF the starter solenoid contacts sticks, you have a "chance" to un-stick it with a sharp knock with a hammer, or you can take a terminal nut loose, QUICKLY! Bill W.
 
Newshirt: I agree with your diagnostics, however this is not an isolated case by any means, whether it be a welded contact caused by a starter in need of repair, faulty wiring, whatever - the fact remains batteries can still blow up due to the contact button not letting go. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has had this contact welding problem.
 
But what if the solenoid didn't let go? Wouldn't the battery also blow up?

My point is that fixing the underlying problem should eliminate the need for the solenoid. But leaving the underlying problem unresolved could expose you to the same risks as using a simple starter switch. A solenoid doesn't fix anything.

In my experience, a Model A engine starts within a few cranks. Almost no heat is generated in the starter circuit because there's almost no time for that heat to build up. Pop! the engine starts right up. Even when it's cold, it only takes a few seconds longer. My belief is that starter switches should last many years and many thousands of miles. So why "fix" them?
 
In most instances I have seen or experienced batterys "blowing up" it was an old battery just off charge, and the lower cranking voltage of an old battery would increase the amp demand of the starter increasing the chances of switch contacts welding, the old battery gasses more---the high amperage also makes for more chance of an internal spark in the battery

I have had 6 batterys blow up at the same time on a golf cart ---it was interesting, I didn't get any acid on me, but the seat and I came to a soft landing 8-10 feet away---another case of trying to get a little more time out of old batterys, it does give you more respect for proper protection when working with batterys.
 
I am working making up a switch for my car right now.

Going though the used switches I have found that the copper can get very pitted. An old arc pitted contact will have more resistance and create more heat.

So an improperly serviced contact with a high resistance along with an older battery would be a recipe for disaster. More heat at the contact point along with lower voltage increasing the needed current to run the starter. Odds of fusing are increased along with chances of the battery getting very unhappy.

The reality is this condition happens after decades. One person stated he plans on changing the solenoid every few years. That would likely be gross over kill.

The real solution to the 'problem' is to just properly restore the parts. Then you should get another 40 to 80 years or reliable use out of the parts.

Just thinking, but I could be totally wrong.
 
Just this week I replaced my foot pedal starter with a starter switch mounted on the dashboard .. Bought the stud kit , and 6 volt solenoid from Snyders .. The push button starter switch I used was from Massey Ferguson and purchased from Tractor Supply .. Had a local starter repair shop remove original and solder in new stud and replace brushes .. Cost was $30.00 .. It worked fine first time ..
 
I agree with what Kurt said. I'm still using my good junkyard 6 volt battery and a good original starter switch and it has never given a hint of a problem. As mentioned, poor connections, cables, and batteries are the main cause for sticking contacts. If you use a repro switch make sure the contact strap has good return pressure.

Also make sure the starter is in good condition. A worn bushing can make the armature drag on the fields and draw a lot of extra current, and cause the contacts to burn. Don't keep the starter engaged for more than about 10 seconds or you can overheat the switch and starter. Continued cranking won't fix the reason for the no start issue.
 
stovepipe said:
I'm planning on replacing the usual Model A starter switch assembly (A11450) with a solenoid switch mounted directly on the starter. This can be done either of two ways.
1. drilling and tapping the original starter contact button (A11102) to hold a battery power cable, or
2. by replacing the contact button with a (T5111) starter terminal stud kit...
Click to expand...
Back in the days when I was a teen ager and didn't know anything -- I took the starter switch off, turned the contact strip upside down so that it made constant contact. Put it back on the starter, inserted the solenoid in line and had my push button starter up and running.
 
CarlG said:
......I took the starter switch off, turned the contact strip upside down so that it made constant contact. Put it back on the starter, inserted the solenoid in line and had my push button starter up and running.
Click to expand...

Thats how the starter in Dad's '31 was done.......works great.
 
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