infrared laser thermometer
- Thread starter kurt v
- Start date
tubman
Well-known member
My '51 runs a few degrees cooler on the right side consistently as well. We've discussed this before on here, and I have chalked it up to the fact that the heater being on that side has an effect, even when it's turned off (hoses and more coolant). As to which laser thermometer is better, these days I don't think there's a lot of difference, so I bought on price, and am quite satisfied.
Perhaps you can learn enough with the new laser gadget that you'll decide to try some thermostats.
Perhaps you can learn enough with the new laser gadget that you'll decide to try some thermostats.
Kube
Super Moderator
I have found this to be almost always true, the right side being a little cooler than the left.
I typically do not run thermostats in any of my cars. IF I do, then 155° are my choice.
I got my thermometer at Harbor Freight for about $20. Works just fine every time.
tubman
Well-known member
Things must be different up here in northern Minnesota. I would not consider not running thermostats under any conditions. I can actually "see" them working in my car. I am running the stock "two-prong" sensor in the left head and a mechanical gauge in the right. When I take off from a cold start, I can see the mechanical gauge rise steadily to 190 degrees, sit there for about 5 seconds, and then drop back to 160. From then on, it sits at 160 for the rest of the time I'm driving. If I watch the stock gauge, I see the same behavior, but it's harder to see because of the "generalized" markings on it. I don't want to run my engine any colder than 160, and as a matter of fact, I am considering changing to 180 thermostats the next time I do any work on the engine.
I'm starting to wonder if I'm the only one on here that has a properly functioning cooling system. Are the rest of you driving around with your coolant at 140 degrees? Or do your engines settle in at 175 through some secret method. In my world anyway, thermostats are a must.
I'm starting to wonder if I'm the only one on here that has a properly functioning cooling system. Are the rest of you driving around with your coolant at 140 degrees? Or do your engines settle in at 175 through some secret method. In my world anyway, thermostats are a must.
Flathead Fever
Well-known member
I just go down to Lowes or Home Depot, there about all that's left anyway. The ones they carry should be pretty accurate. If you don't find it one the tool department look in the separate tool section with the electrical stuff. I was a mechanic for 30-years and those are one of the handiest tools to own. You can use it to check different outside temps in the tubes of the radiator, looking for block tubes. You can look at the difference in the inlet and outlets tubes to see how much the radiator is lowering the temperature. You can look at exhaust manifold ports to see if they are all running the same temperature. You can sit in the house and shoot the dog with it and see what temp he's running at, all kinds of fun stuff.
Kube
Super Moderator
I hope by now you realize I value your opinions as well as your real-world experience.
The cooling systems in my cars are most likely as good or better than when the cars were new. I wish I could explain the "whys" but some of them just run cooler with no thermostats. So many, that I got in the habit of not installing them in fresh restorations. On rare occasion, maybe twice (?) I have gone back and installed a pair.
Took my '36 coupe out today. Bone stock, 4:11, no thermostats. Gauge got to about 3/4 and never past that point. The "real feel" around here was hoovering 100° all day. City and highway mixed, maybe a total of sixty miles. Stopped at a couple of places, came back and the engine fired right up each time.
tubman
Well-known member
Thanks for the answer, Mike. I have to admit that I was surprised when you mentioned that you usually don't run thermostats, because it is contrary to my experiences, while your reputation is without equal. I wonder if this has anything to do with "early" vs "late" (8BA style) flatheads. Maybe Ford engineers DID make some effective changes with the 8BA's. Moving the outlets on the front of the heads and the changes to the coolant flow in the block and corresponding modifications to the passages in the gaskets and heads may have been more significant than we ever thought. My only experience with pre-8BA flatheads was back in '61, 1/4 mile at a time so my experience is admittedly limited. The Ford engineers did make some significant changes over the years , mainly moving the water pumps from the heads to down on the block. Perhaps the last changes they made were finally successful.
One final thought. The thermostats on pre-8BA flatheads have always seemed to me to be afterthoughts; something added because it was the thing to do and could be omitted at the owner's whim. To the contrary, 8BA thermostats are well integrated into the total engine design and look like they belong there. The first thing I see when I look at an 8BA head is the built in provision for a proper thermostat. It looks to me that the Ford engineers finally had the courage of their convictions.
One final thought. The thermostats on pre-8BA flatheads have always seemed to me to be afterthoughts; something added because it was the thing to do and could be omitted at the owner's whim. To the contrary, 8BA thermostats are well integrated into the total engine design and look like they belong there. The first thing I see when I look at an 8BA head is the built in provision for a proper thermostat. It looks to me that the Ford engineers finally had the courage of their convictions.
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SoCalCoupe
Well-known member
I usually go all out for tools but a few years ago bought a very inexpensive Kizen LP300 Infrared Thermometer for around $20 on Amazon. Very, very satisfied. Thought I had a bad overheating problem. Using this tool I identified the issue as a bad temperature sender. Still have the tool. It still works great. Can't think of a single reason to spend more.
I keep it the house with my expensive/precision tools and store it with the batteries removed. Just like a real geek.
I keep it the house with my expensive/precision tools and store it with the batteries removed. Just like a real geek.
SoCalCoupe
Well-known member
For what it's worth (about what you're paying me to read this) I was running without thermostats when I bought my car 5 year ago. Usually took a while to warm up and sometimes was running very cool. Installed thermostats and, as expected, car heats up to operating temp much quicker. In my opinion it's better to get up to temp and run like the car was designed than run too cool. Not sure how sensitive air/fuel mixture is to temperature but if temperature is consistent perhaps air/fuel mixture is similarly consistent.
That said, I always pay attention to what Kube and Tubman have to say.
That said, I always pay attention to what Kube and Tubman have to say.
glennpm
Well-known member
I run 180° thermostats. even with them, if I don't block part of my radiator, it won't get above 140°.
"The best efficient temperature for a car’s engine coolant is between 195°F and 220°F (90°C to 104°C). Within this range, combustion efficiency is optimized, fuel consumption is minimized, and emissions are reduced. Specifically, 202°F (94°C) is identified as the peak temperature for maximum combustion efficiency and fuel mileage"
"The best efficient temperature for a car’s engine coolant is between 195°F and 220°F (90°C to 104°C). Within this range, combustion efficiency is optimized, fuel consumption is minimized, and emissions are reduced. Specifically, 202°F (94°C) is identified as the peak temperature for maximum combustion efficiency and fuel mileage"
PeteVS
Well-known member
For what it's worth, I always drill about an 1/8" hole in the thermostat. Years ago, I had an old GMC pickup and the temperature always would get way up there as the engine warmed up. Then, it would plummet, start rising again and keep repeating the cycle. I attributed this to the thermostat being "out of the loop." The hole I drilled always allowed some flow so the thermostat would have a better idea of what was actually happening in the engine.
farmertom
Senior Member
I'm with tubman,in my '37 85hp i installed 160deg.stats and it consistently ran at 175-180 deg.with my new ride '51 crestline with fairly fresh rebuilt 239 with .030 overbore mild Isky cam the temps stay real close to 175-185 deg. consistently with the dash gauges and a hobo freight temp gun.i will have to look at all the build sheet papers to look if i ncan find again specific deg stats.when i turn on the gun of course i toggle to farenheight then shoot the garage floor a consistent known temp the go for all the other engine spots. works great. In iowa i drive my classics almost everyday in 40deg. weather till the snow sand and salt arrives. Tom.
farmertom
Senior Member
Haha if i had a dog i'd do the same. Tom.
Kube
Super Moderator
I have long wondered why one of my flatty's operates better with stats and another does not. I rebuild all of them to the same standards. I only have 21 and 24 stud motors and nothing after '48.
I know very little about the later blocks other than what I have read.
Ah, the mysteries...
Kube
Super Moderator
I can certainly agree with this. Most likely why modern cars heat to operating temperature very quickly and run so much hotter than vintage cars.
But, getting back to a flathead... 202° would leave any of us on the side of the road.
tubman
Well-known member
This doesn't seem right. You shouldn't have to block the radiator if the thermostats were doing their job. Is this an 8BA or earlier engine? If an 8BA, I would try a new set of thermostats. Like I posted, you should be able to actually see them working on the temperature gauge (especially a good mechanical one.) If an earlier engine, I would suspect units that have been displaced from their proper locations, and are now "cocked" so they don't restrict the flow, or are jammed open.
This is one situation where "if it ain't broke. don't fix it" doesn't work for me.