Indentification Numbers
- Thread starter brennanmp
- Start date
Steve Plucker
BANNED
Mr. or Ms. or Mrs. brennanmp,
Unfortunatly there are no "ID" numbers on the Model A per say.
However if you were to put up a few pictures of the car, we could probably ID it from looking at those or at least narrow it down. Then give you a specific "ID" number.
For instance, if it is a 1929 Standard Coupe, it is considered to be a 45-A, if it is a 1928-1929 Special Coupe, it is considered a 49-A and on and on.
The first known instance of body ID numbers appeared in the Indianapolis Ford Service Letter of May 16, 1930.
The plate on the firewall are patent numbers for specific parts related to the Model A/AA Ford.
Engine A-8506, if it is an originally stamped engine and not a restamp, was stamped on January 12, 1928...the day it was built...that does not necessarly mean that the car was built on that specific day.
Pluck
Unfortunatly there are no "ID" numbers on the Model A per say.
However if you were to put up a few pictures of the car, we could probably ID it from looking at those or at least narrow it down. Then give you a specific "ID" number.
For instance, if it is a 1929 Standard Coupe, it is considered to be a 45-A, if it is a 1928-1929 Special Coupe, it is considered a 49-A and on and on.
The first known instance of body ID numbers appeared in the Indianapolis Ford Service Letter of May 16, 1930.
The plate on the firewall are patent numbers for specific parts related to the Model A/AA Ford.
Engine A-8506, if it is an originally stamped engine and not a restamp, was stamped on January 12, 1928...the day it was built...that does not necessarly mean that the car was built on that specific day.
Pluck
Last edited:
glenn in camino
Well-known member
Steve Plucker
How do you identify the exact date an engine was built by the engine #?
Glenn in Camino
How do you identify the exact date an engine was built by the engine #?
Glenn in Camino
Jerry Parr WI
Well-known member
I think you are reading the part number of the water pump casting not an engine number. The engine number should be on the side of the block and start amd end with a star.
Steve Plucker
BANNED
Glenn,
The first thing you look at is the engine number pad on the block. If it is the same texture as the rest of the engine, then more than likely it has never been "restamped' thus exhibiting its "original" stamped number that was placed on it when it came off the engine run-in line at Dearborn.
If the engine number pad has been ground down to a smooth surface with a number, more than likely that engine LOST its original number and was restamped with the same number or another due to the original engine and its number were shot for some reason.
That being said, the restamps would not be the original stamp on the engine.
So now you are looking at an engine that has the rough engine number pad surface with a stamped number, let's say *A221545*
Ford had a daily engine log that was kept thus recording the stampings of each day.
So by looking up the number "*A221545* say on Bob Johnson's site or my site, you will see that it was stamped on June 29, 1928 and there were a total of 3118 engines stamped for that day (221159-224276).
Then this mixture of engines were shipped to the many different assembly plants, in not any order, for assembly into a chassis and eventually a car or truck.
So many times, more than less, the engine date is not the date the vehicle was assembled unless it was at Dearborn where it is a known fact that this occurance did occur because of the proxcimity of the engines to the assembly line. The further away from Dearborn, the longer the assembly time period. For instance San Francisco was about 2 weeks!
Pluck
The first thing you look at is the engine number pad on the block. If it is the same texture as the rest of the engine, then more than likely it has never been "restamped' thus exhibiting its "original" stamped number that was placed on it when it came off the engine run-in line at Dearborn.
If the engine number pad has been ground down to a smooth surface with a number, more than likely that engine LOST its original number and was restamped with the same number or another due to the original engine and its number were shot for some reason.
That being said, the restamps would not be the original stamp on the engine.
So now you are looking at an engine that has the rough engine number pad surface with a stamped number, let's say *A221545*
Ford had a daily engine log that was kept thus recording the stampings of each day.
So by looking up the number "*A221545* say on Bob Johnson's site or my site, you will see that it was stamped on June 29, 1928 and there were a total of 3118 engines stamped for that day (221159-224276).
Then this mixture of engines were shipped to the many different assembly plants, in not any order, for assembly into a chassis and eventually a car or truck.
So many times, more than less, the engine date is not the date the vehicle was assembled unless it was at Dearborn where it is a known fact that this occurance did occur because of the proxcimity of the engines to the assembly line. The further away from Dearborn, the longer the assembly time period. For instance San Francisco was about 2 weeks!
Pluck
brennanmp - What I see in you pictures is a Fordor, looking like a Briggs body, and possibly built in 1929. The reason I say this is it is very, very close to my own car which was built in July 1929 according to the frame serial number. However, my engine is not original as the serial number on it indicates it is a 1931 built in Feb.
Take another close look at the left front of the engine block just below the head gasket; this is where you will find the engine serial number. You can then find when the engine was built, and if it is original to the car this will tell you when the car was built too.
If you are wondering where the frame serial number is; it is located on the frame in the vacinity of the pedals on the left frame rail under the body. I am sorry to say it can't be read without lifting or removing the body. However, the title I have for my car has the frame serial number listed. Does yours? If so, and it is correct, you should be able to tell when the car was built.
Take another close look at the left front of the engine block just below the head gasket; this is where you will find the engine serial number. You can then find when the engine was built, and if it is original to the car this will tell you when the car was built too.
If you are wondering where the frame serial number is; it is located on the frame in the vacinity of the pedals on the left frame rail under the body. I am sorry to say it can't be read without lifting or removing the body. However, the title I have for my car has the frame serial number listed. Does yours? If so, and it is correct, you should be able to tell when the car was built.
Special Coupe Frank
Well-known member
I see a red steering wheel and straight-fluted headlamp lenses... where is the handbrake lever located ?
Also, the engine appears to have no oil drain tube and a taller valve chamber cover - could this be a Model-B block with a Model-A head? If so, there may be no number stamped on the block pad. I also agree with the comment about the A-8506 number - if on the water pump casting it is a NOS Ford replacement pump from the later 30's - 40's and not an engine number. An interesting find, this is...
Deluxe Delivery Don
Senior Member
This looks like a late 1928 Tudor. Just from the pictures.
glenn in camino
Well-known member
I've been playing with Model As since the late 60s and I'm still learning. Thanks guys.
1930artdeco
Well-known member
Is it my imagination or this a 28/29 leatherback? I see bits of fuzz on the belt line.
Mike
Mike
Thanks for all the input, I am very new to model A. I found the pad, it has an engine number of *A1104181*. Hopefully this weekend I will have an opportunity to raise the cab and locate the number off the frame rail.
A couple more questions: How would I distinguish the difference between the leatherback and the steelback? What defines the difference between a Briggs body and a Murray body and how can i tell the difference?
Thanks again,
Mike
A couple more questions: How would I distinguish the difference between the leatherback and the steelback? What defines the difference between a Briggs body and a Murray body and how can i tell the difference?
Thanks again,
Mike
dlshady
Well-known member
Mike,
That's a Briggs bodied leatherback. The easiest way to tell the Briggs bodies from the Murray bodies is the shape of the side windows. Notice how yours are flat across the top, which is how the Briggs cars are. Murray bodies had a slight arch to the side window opening. As for the engine number, assuming its the original engine, it makes your car an early 1929 which would apear to be correct. Ford was phasing out the red steering wheels, drum taillights and some other typical 28 features in early 29, so I'd feel safe calling it an early 29.
Deron
That's a Briggs bodied leatherback. The easiest way to tell the Briggs bodies from the Murray bodies is the shape of the side windows. Notice how yours are flat across the top, which is how the Briggs cars are. Murray bodies had a slight arch to the side window opening. As for the engine number, assuming its the original engine, it makes your car an early 1929 which would apear to be correct. Ford was phasing out the red steering wheels, drum taillights and some other typical 28 features in early 29, so I'd feel safe calling it an early 29.
Deron