ignition

I just installed the FSI unit a few weeks ago. I also installed a Lion III head at the same time. The engine runs smoother that it did before. I had to mess with the timing quite a bit though. As delivered, I set the timing for TDC and let the internal advance weights advance to a total of 28 degrees advance. This resulted in considerable hesitation when accelerating. I have limited the total advance in the distributor to about 21 degrees and reset the initial timing to 10 degrees BTDC. This has fixed the hesitation and limited the total advance to protect the engine.
 
I run 4 Model A's with points, well over a 100,000 miles combined. The ONLY time I was left on the side of the road, was with an electronic ignition set up when it failed. I personally am NOT a fan.
 
The original design or even the so called modern one work fine. The problem with the electronic ignition is that since it is a solid state unit, it can go at anytime and there is no fixing it unlike the other two options.
 
I went with the electronic ignition because I could not find an automatic advance points distributor. I would switch back to points if I could find the auto advance points set up.
 
old Tom said:
Has anyone ever installed electronic ignition on a Model A? Are there pro and cons.
Thank You
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Tom, this is a controversial topic simply because many folks believe what seems believable to them in this regard. FWIW, I used to be a dealer for one of the Model-A electronic ignition companies, and I have warrantied more than just a few units. Most will always agree that when they work, -they typically work well. When they do not, then they are a great cause of stress.

The background on these is they were popular a couple of decades ago when original style Model-A ignition points and distributor cams were very poor quality coming from off-shore manufacturing. Today, Bill & Tony Stipe offer a very high quality distributor cam that has some added dwell time to increase coil saturation. Top quality Model-A style points & a burn-proof condensers are now carried by most vendors, so they provide trouble-free operation for many miles. When the points do become oxidized, they are easily burnished with a fine piece of sandpaper and you are quickly able to travel on to your destination.

One other misconception that comes from those defending the electronic triggered ignition system is many believe the electronic ignition produces a hotter spark. Unfortunately, that is incorrect. The coil itself is what produces the voltage level (intensity) of the spark. Neither the Kettering-style points nor the electronic triggered system affect the spark intensity outside of saturation time. More often than not at the RPMs of the engine, there is plenty of time for the coil to fully saturate providing the best level of spark it can.

My advice is spend your money on properly rebuilding a distributer just like Ford designed it, and if you feel you need an extra piece of mind, carry an extra condenser and coil under the seat. If you decide to use the electronic set-up, make sure you carry an extra module (pricey) and a bottle of Tylenol to ease the pain of your headache when the electronic system fails. :D

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Brent has it right. I lived through the era of Junky points and condensers. Very frustrating. Glad to hear that quality points and condensers are available now. I found that using a B distributor cam led to a better spark. I am always concerned about folks over advancing their timing either manually or with an auto advance distributor. Rick.
 
Here is my take. My car came with electronic ignition. It hesitated and did not start as well as when I put the mechanical distributor in. It may have been that the advance curve was not right. In any case, I like the mechanical distributor better. Here is why:


I have the modern points and condenser sold by the suppliers along with the dummy condenser so the distributor looks stock but is much more reliable. The point setting is good for 5,000 miles.

I tried electronic ignition in another car but it did not have as hot of a spark with the same coil. It made the engine have a miss under certain conditions. I believe this is because the electronic ignition does not have a condenser and that the coil and condenser work together in an LC turned circuit to produce a hotter and multiple sparks in quick succession. A hotter coil solved some of the missing.

When my battery got low at low RPM, because of a bad battery, the electronic ignition failed to work.

I like to be able to control the spark for different driving conditions and engine speeds.

I believe that the ignition happens faster at higher RPM because of increased turbulence so that spark advance is mostly not needed. In my car I mostly set the ignition at the knee and leave it there. This is the way I have been driving Model A's for 60 years.
 
My friends that have one say “I only had one go bad because of some reason and now it is reliable” Leave key on,faulty ground etc.

John
 
I have 2 stock distributors, one on the car and the other one under the seat. The one under the seat is timed to my engine. I only had to use it once in 38,000 miles because of a condenser failure. It took less than five minutes to swap the distributors. Replaced the condenser when I reached my destination and the distributor was good to go. I vote for the stock distributor! I also use the Stipe 'B' grind distributor cam.
 
GeneBob said:
I just installed the FSI unit a few weeks ago. I also installed a Lion III head at the same time. The engine runs smoother that it did before. I had to mess with the timing quite a bit though. As delivered, I set the timing for TDC and let the internal advance weights advance to a total of 28 degrees advance. This resulted in considerable hesitation when accelerating. I have limited the total advance in the distributor to about 21 degrees and reset the initial timing to 10 degrees BTDC. This has fixed the hesitation and limited the total advance to protect the engine.
Click to expand...

15 years ago I installed a brand new Lion III for a while.

1. It would detonate very easily to the point that it would backfire and would quit running if I held the throttle down on a hill, then start to run when I let off.

This was with the same engine, distributor, radiator and camshaft which worked fine with the Police Head for 45,000 miles.

Went round and round for several months and finally reinstalled the Police head "with the Large B". Besides this guy offered me $145 more than I paid for the Lion III a year earlier.

2. Found later that problem was that there were many sharp edges in combustion chamber areas that would glow red hot and ignited fuel mixture at the wrong times ... a classic detonation problem.

3. Also there are some spark plugs that have a longer reach and the threads will extend into the flame area and glow red hot again causing detonation.

You must watch which plugs are used.

Lion head III was new when I got it and did this right out of the box.
 
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