Ignition System Problems

Bob Grieb

Bob Grieb

Senior Member
This must be a Newbie issue but I am frustrated over my ability to get the ignition system to function.

I have a six volt system that I have been working on for over a week now and I have a problem getting six volts at the points when they are open.

I have replaced the points, plugs, condenser (twice), the distributer cap, plug wires, ignition switch. terminal box, and armored cable. The voltage reading at the points has been six volts but it is not consistant. At present I have no voltage when the ignition switch is closed and the points are open. I have checked and double checked the wiring terminations to the schematic and I cannot identify a problem.

Is there anything that I am missing or need to check??

I do get six at both terminals of the terminal box.

Thanks

Bob
 
Are you using a pop-out switc? I believe if screwed into the dist too far they short out, not sure if repo's do the same. More knowledgable people than I will chime in I'm sure.
Paul in CT
 
If you are not getting 6-volts to both sides of the firewall terminal box, a posibility is that one or both attachments to the ammeter have come loose. The ammeter straddles the terminal box and carries power from one fractured wing nut to the other. The ammeter connections were originally thumb nuts and are not much more than finger tight. It is common for them to come loose.

Tom Endy
 
I am getting six volts to both posts on the terminal box and at the starter but NOT at the points

Thanks

Bob
 
Bob:

You indicated you got intermittent voltage to the points. A loose connection at the ammeter could be your problem.

If you have a solid voltage at both fractured wing nuts. Check that you have the same at both primairy connections to the coil (with the points open, slip a business card between the points). One wire on the coil goes direct to the terminal box connection, picking up power, the other runs up to your ignition switch. Check that you have voltage there. When you close the switch the voltage should be present at the points.

You can also bypass everthing to get the car started. Remove the wire from the coil that runs to the ignition switch. Remove the screw in at the distributor. Clip a wire onto the coil where you removed the wire. The other end needs to go to where you unscrewed from the disributor. You need to make contact with the lower plate inside the disrtibutor. You can do this by fashioning a cork with a nail or screw through it.

Many of us carry a by-pass with us on tours. You can make one up from a discarded distributor cable. I believe Bratton's sell the device already made up. When you have ignition problems out on the road the by-pass is a quick remedy to get you going again.

Tom Endy
 
Tom -

Thanks for the tips. I will do the checks you recommended in the morning. I have been batteling this issue for over a week

Bob
 
1931 flamingo said:
Are you using a pop-out switc? I believe if screwed into the dist too far they short out, not sure if repo's do the same. More knowledgable people than I will chime in I'm sure.
Paul in CT
Click to expand...

I'm curious if this is true? I just installed a new popout cable and screwed it all the way in. I'm using the cheesy simply on\off switch with it.

It doesn't seem to be shorting or having any issues?
 
I do not believe I am shorting there. I am using a simple off/on switch with a simple armored wire. It is only in about 3 turns and does not appear to be shortinh

Thanks
BOb
 
Mr Tube

Not sure I will need to check tomorrow. I know I get 6 volts at both when the ignition is off but I do not know about when the key is on. I would check tonight but I have no lights

Thanks

Bob
 
Bob, sorry I confused the way its wired. Thats fine it says the coil should be good.

The only thing left is the wire going to the distributor, the connection from that to the bottom plate, and then the small wire going from the bottom plate to the points. Make sure that internal wire is not shorted to the top plate, it needs to be completely isolated where it bolts onto the points.
 
Maybe you should try a 6V 21 W bulb instead of a multimeter.

A MM can show 6 volts when there is negligible current.

A bad connection will show up on the bulb brightness.
 
I agree with Mr. Tube that all seems well to the ignition switch. I would unscrew the ignition wire where it enters the distributor, turn on the key and see if you have 6v there at the end of that wire. Since it is inconsistent try it a few times off and on, or better yet if possible try at one of those times when you do not get voltage at the points. (An intermittent failure is a bad connection and the worst to trace.) If there is no voltage when the switch is on, the problem is probably the switch (2 bad switches in a row is rare, but....) or second, and equally rare, a problem in the wire to the distributor or the end point button connection to the wire at the distributor end. Crimp the button tight. You might also bend the piece in the distributor body that contacts the ignition wire end to make a secure connection to the ignition wire end button. If you have voltage there consistently, trace and check for shorts in the distributor as Mr. Tube says. I dont want to sound patronizing, but I assume that when you say that there is no voltage at the points when the ignition switch is "closed" you mean there is no voltage when the ignition switch is in the on position. Sometimes the terminology gets confused. The switch "closes" the circuit when it is on, and "opens" the circuit when off. Also I assume that you are always measuring the same side of the points. One side goes to ground. You might check that while you are at it with a simple continuity check to the block ground. Intermittents can be very sneaky. Jiggle things around. Lastly, or maybe first, try changing the points because it does not make sense to me that you get voltage when the points are closed but not when open. That suggests to me some sort of circuit "open" occurs from the stud or contacts on which the movable points rotate. Make sure all contacts are clean and bright. Use fine steel wool and blow it clean so no fine pieces of wool are left. You did not mention the year of your car, but in 1929 Ford changed the ignition wiring (Service Bulletins pg 390) to include the ammeter in the circuit and in later models the ammeter would bounce when cranking the engine to show the points were working. There is a good article on this and other electrical issues and trouble shooting in Vol 5 of the Restorer restoration series.)Let us know.
 
I am headed for the Pomona Swap Meet this morning. I will follow up on all the advice you have given me this afternoon or in the morning. I cannot remember being more frustrated with a problem than I am with this one.

Thanks

Bob
 
Had something like this come up changing from an ignition switch to a popout switch from spain. Had to chase the pipe threads in the aftermarket distributor housing with a pipe plug to allow the end of the cable to go in far enough to make contact with the lower plate.
Then I had a problem using a probe light to check for voltage at the points. The points need to be open to get a reading. By unhooking the advance retard linkage at the distributor I could open and close the points by rotating the lower plate arm.
Good advice to check all the internals in the distributor. the lower wire needs to clear both the upper plate, and the side of the housing.Bob
 
Thanks for all the points that I need to go back and check. It is a nasty day here today so Monday morning I will get back at it. I have been so long trying to resolve the ignition issue that I needed back away for a couple of days.

Bob
 
Here is a listing of the steps I took today and I still have no power (6 volts) at the points:

1) Checked all wires going to and from the terminal box for proper routing and tight connections.
2) Verified the switch would open and close (continuity)
3) Removed the armored cable from the distributor and verified continuity of the inner wire and verified it was isolated from the shielding.
4) Installed new ammeter- verified polarity
5) With the ignition switch open I confirmed 6 volts at both posts on the terminal box and both terminals on the coil.
6) Installed armored cable into the distributer and connected the ignition switch
7) With ignition switch closed I did not have 6 volts at the + terminal of the coil.
8) Checked for spark at points – there was none.
9) Stopped for the day

Thanks for the help !

Bob
 
I think I would concentrate my efforts on the distributor. Be sure the lower distributor plate where the ignition cable end pushes against is not shorting out on the distributor housing. Next, be sure that the pigtail wire going from the lower plate to the points nut is not shorting out on anything. Move the upper plate as you would when you advance/retard the spark and be sure it is not shorting out as it is moved. Then move to the points and be sure they are not bottoming on the cam, and be sure that the points themselves, the assembly nut, are not shorting out on anything. These are all potential "shorting out" places.
 
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If you have 6-volts at the center connector on the distributor screw-in when the ignition switch is closed, and 6-volts on both primary connections of the coil, all is well up to entering the distributor. If you lose 6-volts to one side of the coil when you install the distributor screw-in it means either the points are closed or you have a short inside the distributor. Like the fellow above says, concentrate on the distributor. remove the upper plate and you are likely to find the wire that connects the lower plate to the arm of the points on the upper plate shorted to ground.

Tom Endy
 
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