I feel like a newbie again?? Problems, problems,!!!

DeBordEngineMan

DeBordEngineMan

Senior Member
Hey everyone I've been trying to work on the 29 tudor as I can. I'm trying to remember how to recall things about the A and trying to figure out problems with the car after I suffered a stroke and it is really frustrating. Car has sit for around 5 years. Things I've done. New battery, new condenser, new plugs gaped at .035, new points gaped at .020 set time with nu-rex timing tool cleaned all fuel lines, cleaned zenith 2 carburetor all new gaskets, did have to replace a pickup jet theads were stripped
ordered one from Brattons carburetor was perfect when parked, new 6v coil, something was wrong with system somewhere I couldn't get a spark at points worked on distributor and all connections finely got spark something grounding somewhere??? Now after all that I finally got her started!!! BUT!...running like crap. I tried to adjust carburetor helped some but the engine lopes over and over? Thought about it some I checked compression the old fashioned way best I could I put my thumb over plug holes to see how hard they blow then suck my thumb back. Back cylinder was weak. So I thought about more. Maybe a stuck or sticky valve? Looked in plug holes could see one in each hole move up and down took a bent screwdriver on the valves I couldn't see all seemed to be moving. So I took mmo and sprayed in plug holes and took valve cover off and sprayed mmo on valve springs and all around valves. Us a little bit in gas. I've done that process twice and smoked up the neighborhood!! It did run some better. Also it is possible I've been told if everything is timed right the model A should run on 1 cylinder? If I take first 3 plug wires off and leave the back one next to firewall it will die. But if I reverse the other way and leave cylinder in front of the engine will run on 1 cylinder. So maybe something is going on in rear cylinder? I've got fire to the plug so I'm thinking a valve not seating? I know this is a long post, sorry but I'm just at my last straw. Any suggestions??? Plus today started the car letting in burn off the mmo and I was trying to turn gas mixter down in side and car died. Started to start it back let off starter button still trying to start then the starter just was whizzing not engaged and I had to unhook the battery to stop it. So not sure what is going on therapy suggestions?? As I said previously problems, problems. Thanks sorry for long post. Robert
 
I'll start with the starter. The switch is stuck on and the bendix is not engaging. Take the switch off and use some high temperature grease to free things up or get a new switch. See if the bendix works then. If not, take the starter out to see if there is a loose bolt or something wrong with the bendix.

Please describe loping and running like crap. Exactly what is the engine doing? When it is loping is the rpm going up and down or is it just running rough like it is not firing on all cylinders?

What happens when you adjust the timing lever? Does it run better with the lever all the way down or half way down or up all the way? Does it seem like it would run better if you had more throw on the lever? The reason I am asking is I don't trust the nu-rex timing tool.
 
Thanks for the response nkaminar when running at idle speed the engine will surge up and down in a steady slow "loping" motion. But at the same time acts like it's not hitting on all cylinders. It's like it's just a bad miss like a plug is bad but I've checked all plugs are firing but not sure if one could be bad all are new but that doesn't mean that I may have a bad one. Thought it could be a air leak but sprayed wd40 all around engine with no change in rpm's. Starting with advance lever all the way up is where I crank engine then pulling half to 3/4 down it runs somewhat better but anywhere other lever quadrant it still runs up and down with the hard miss.plus if I Rev the engine up and let off it will backfire out exhaust pipe. With the nu-rex timing tool it's new to me just bought it to help with my memory being on the slower side of life now. I have had this car for 13 years and always kept it in top running shape with back firing that to me seems a timing issue need to go back to old way I set the timing. As for the starter i did have to rebuild it also before I got it going after sitting for 5 years the little fiber T shaped engaging piece had been replaced with a piece of hickory stick! It had worn down to where it wouldn't push down to make contact so need to check the internals of swich sure thats my problem. Of course after sitting for 5 years it hard on anything not regular driving.
 
IMHO, For having had a stroke, you're doing fine.

Backfire from the exhaust is usually a rich mixture, somehow fuel is making it into the exhaust system and igniting.

The Nurex timing tool works for me. Here is a pic of what your rotor / distributor body electrode should look like when timed at #1 Top Dead Center with timing pin in the cam gear detent.
 

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Thanks for the reply. The missing on one cylinder can be anything. The clear distributor top is a good way to check the spark for all cylinders. It should be the same and a strong blue color. If you have an old cap you can just cut it away so that all cylinder sparks are shown. It will end up being a straight piece that spans from clip to clip.

One cylinder low on compression will cause a miss. You said that the thumb test indicated a low cylinder. Most likely a valve. Could be a bit of carbon under the exhaust valve lip. In any case it likely means a valve job. Check with a real compression gauge.

The loping that you describe is likely a fuel issue. Try screwing out the idle adjustment screw which will introduce more air for idle. Or try a friends carburetor that you know works well. If the engine runs best with the spark lever 3/4 of the way down then you have timed the engine correctly.
 
On timing of engine that is the exact position the rotor on that is where I always timed it with timing pin at top dead center. I just bought the nu-rex to make it easier as I wasn't really sure if I was remembering correctly setting time right. But with the nu-rex I was coming up with same result so maybe I am doing some better than I thought with my memory. I do have a extra distributor cap I can cut down to see the spark on rotor and distributor body contacts I checked the gap on rotor to contacts today and set at .025 gap. Going back to the new pickup jet I installed I just ordered a new replacement and put it in. I had forgotten about flow testing it it could be not sized correctly I think it is supposed to be soldered and then be drilled with a #75 drill but not sure? Don't know if replacements are just ready to go. If not that make me think you could never get the idle right and maybe cause the up and down surging or as I call it loping. About the spark on low cylinder while running I can pull the wire terminal off and see it doesn't seem to be a consistent arc on that spark plug as the others. Not sure about carburetor I've really never had to do anything to it I bought it from a friend that rebuilt zeniths and never had any problems until letting it set for 5 years but that will do it. I cleaned all passages cleaned and reused same cap jet, compensate jet, main jet under drain plug used same gav seat then all new gaskets cleaned and set float cutoff the float does cut off gas plus set fuel in bowl at 5/8" from bottom half with clear level sight from drain plug and the 2 jets tops at just below 3/8" from top of bottom half. I think most made a jig and mounted carburetor filled bowl with gas it held at 5/8" below seam of carburetor split in sight tube all night. Only thing new that was replaced was a new pickup jet. The one that was in carburetor I stripped the threads on the jet itself somehow? So not really sure if I did the carburetor right? May just try and get somebody to rebuild it so I know it's right. Still think I have a valve to seating correctly on back cylinder but not sure. Any thoughts greatly appreciated. Robert
 
X2 on nkaminar suggestions. If you see uneven or weak sparks at the back cylinder, their may be x firing going on. It may be external to an inappropriate place or internal to the distributor body between electrode pathways. The cut down cap Neil described may help. There may be a crack in the body near #4?? A darkened garage might reveal any external x firing.

Is your carb a stock Zenith? I'm not sure what a pickup jet is.

My carb gave me fits until I figured out the main and cap jets were leaking at their bases. The gaskets weren't sealing. I've got long fingers. I used the middle finger and found fuel by touching the base of the jets. I disassembled the bottom half and leveled it on the bench and put fuel in the bowl and left it for awhile. The leaking was obvious. Just a guess.

Is there a club member that could loan you a known good carb to try?
 
I have a standard zenith #2 carburetor made by Holly instead of pickup jet I meant idle jet that goes down in secondary well. I had to get a new one as the one that came out was stripped and wouldn't hold. I didn't know if they were ready to go or had to be flow tested. The one that was in it looked like it had been souldered and redrilled. I bought it from a guy that use to build carbs bet he's not doing it anymore plus he's 2 hours from me. Speaking about a club that's the closest one to where I am at which is 2 hours away so really don't have anybody around me to get a y hands on help. Or to borrow a known working carburetor from. So that's why it's just advice from here and trial and error. I think that I'm just going to find someone just to build the zenith so it will be right. But like I have said any help is greatly appreciated. Robert
 
You sound very knowledgeable and are proceeding logically. The pickup jet may be the problem. Here is a site that may help: https://model-a.org/default.html

Besides the thumb test, another way to test compression without a gauge is to hand crank the engine over slowly. A cylinder low on compression will turn over easier than the rest. You can also listen for air leaking out the exhaust valve with the exhaust pipe off or out an intake valve with any air filter off and the throttle open with the hand throttle. If you have a broken piston ring (unlikely) you can hear air leaking past the piston at the crankcase vent tube with the cap off. You may have to turn up your hearing aids.
 
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Thanks for the help I'm going to order a plug adapter for a compression tester so I can check for sure. Not sure if it's a intake or exhaust valve problem but I'm thinking that may be the problem but not sure. As if I have low compression on rear cylinder which with thumb test I could tell a difference with that cylinder. I remember my Dad checking for valve problem by putting a light towel hanging over end of tailpipe to see if it was getting sucked back to tail pipe to check for a valve problem well I think that's what I remember??? I had to laugh about the hearing aids!! After having my brain tumor surgery then having a stroke afterwards the tumor caused me to loose alot of my hearing.
A person can have alot of things happen to them that makes life more complicated but God is always there to help you. I had to laugh about the hearing aids my wife said that they didn't help because I didn't listen to her before!!!! You have to laugh about yourself and the way life is sometimes! But I'm still here able to enjoy my family and my Model A. Well when I get it going!!! Robert
 
It may just need to be driven, exercised for a while. Take it out for a good drive 3 or 5 miles, and see if it settles down.

Rob Doe, that's an odd looking rotor, what's the story?
 
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Just sitting and trying to figure the problem with the one cylinder that I think by just my pressure on my thumb I'm going to order a compression adapter and give it a true test to make sure that indeed that back cylinder is my troubles but just another thought today...could it be a piston ring stuck in its after sitting for so long??? Maybe? Or a valve not seating because of carbon built up on valve? Who knows. If I'm having compression problem I think with the updraft carburetor will never be right until I get more compression built back on the one cylinder. Does that make any since? So I could be looking at the least pulling head off to see whats going on. I remember my Dad taking transmission fluid and kerosene and pouring down plugs to soak everything for days till stuff loosened up. What you all think worth a try before pulling head. Robert
 
katy said:
It may just need to be driven, exercised for a while. Take it out for a good drive 3 or 5 miles, and see if it settles down.

Rob Doe, that's an odd looking rotor, what's the story?
Click to expand...


Katy, the pic is from Tom Wesenburg and the two nuts are his method to balance the rotor and reduce long term bushing wear. Pretty cool stuff.
 
I'm thinking Nkaminar's post #9 describes a poor man's leak down test??? I bought a Harbor Freight leak down gauge a few months back to test for a head gasket leak. ???

Stick with the easy, non invasive checks first. I'd pursue the spark issue with a cut down cap. You can use an ohmmeter to test the electrodes internal within the distributor body. If you cut down your good distributor cap, you could order a new one along with the compression adapter. Some compression testers have a rubber cone on the bottom and can be used on about any spark plug hole ???

I've read elsewhere that old timers used your dad's kerosene trick. If you do that you'll need to change the oil. Of course you know that. I'm beginning to appreciate your dad.... I'm hoping you don't have to remove the head or do a valve job. If the car was running good when parked, if its a valve issue, it's probably just sticking.

If the car set for 5 years, there are some other things that should probably be done, but I'll bow out and let more experienced barners weigh in.
 
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A leak down test will tell what the next major or minor steps you’ll need to take! Leakage around the rings listen from the oil filler, leaking out the f the carburetor intake valve leaking, leaking out of the tailpipe exhaust valve leaking. Take breaks when you need and keep at it you’ll soon have the purring
 
Thanks everyone for the help and suggestions and support. I think I mentioned it previously somewhere in the posts that the tudor was and always ran perfectly up until I put it the garage and had to face a long and hard recovery back to just being able to walk and talk again but things are kinda coming back it just seems to be jumbled up and it helps to set and focus on the problems each separate as I get frustrated because I now I know alot of this stuff it just doesn't work from my thought to my hands. But I am going to focus on the low compression issue first if I can't get compression back on all cylinders the other problems isn't going to matter. I'm going to check getting compression built back first as i know without a gauge rear cylinder is for sure weaker than the others. Then move on from from their. That one has to be either a valve or piston ring gumed up. If I can't get it built up the head going to have to come off to have a look see at internals. I think I'm going to use the kerosene and automatic transmission fluid in the plug hole and let it soak for a few days I've seen my Dad work wonders with completely stuck engines years ago. He's been gone 25 years now but I'm so glad now I stayed out in the garage with him I really didn't realize then he was showing and teaching me. Thanks Dad! Thanks everyone Robert
 
Wow Robert, it is great to see you posting again as I know both you & Miss Rita have been thru the mill health wise.

Keep plugging away with it, but if you just cannot get it, why don't you put it on a trailer and y'all run by the shop and we'll do some checks while it is still loaded. Then you can take it back home. I would suspect it is something minor that you are just missing. Feel free to text me or PM me if you like.
 
Re: I feel like a newbie again?? Problems, problems,!!!

Have you Polarized your generator? or checked to see that generator cut-out is working properly?

Good luck!
 
Hey guys getting the tudor running alot better but not perfect still having g some issues. But thanks Brent Terry I took your advice and just let it set and run for a good hour or more. That's what I've been doing I pull the plugs and spray MMO in let it soak overnight then pull it out of garage and I've let it run for about an hour and fifteen minutes and let the MMO get good and hot I've done that for three days and it is getting better plus I spray a mist of MMO in the zenith at a higher rpm and let it suck through. I'm going Monday and have a master zenith carburetor guy rebuild it for me so that will definitely help as I am not a carburetor man. So thanks for everyone's help I really appreciate it! I will update after the carburetor build. Robert
 
There will come a time when we all will need help at our doorstep. My time is now as I can no longer muster the energy to go out and work for ten or twelve hours on a project. I will require at least four hours of sleep, twice, in that long of a project. Recognizing that the time has come is a bit of a shocker and when I go out and see the mess my garage is and consider how will I get it cleaned up enough to do any serious work out there, I then reolize it is, for me, time to let someone else take over the care of my vehicles while I try to maintain some reasonable sembleance of good health. It may be that others are nearing this point in their lives also.

Dave Mc Arthur, once was the "Ace Mechanic", now sort of a has was.
 
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