Hub Bolts

Gary Gregory

Gary Gregory

Senior Member
Just removed the hub bolts "studs" from one of my rear brake steel drums. I have the swedging tool from Snyders but my press isn't big enough to swedge the new bolts. Would it be safe to weld the studs in ? I would rather put them in the correct way but finding a shop willing to do it isn't looking good.
 
The studs should not be welded in, they should be swedged. As well, the face of the hubs should be turned on a lathe to true up the faces before the drum is installed. While welding the studs in may work, the upset part of the stud that should have been swedged down level with the face of the drum, may interfere with the correct setting of the wheel on the drum. You should get it done correctly, a local machine shop shop should be able to do it, seeing as you have the tool.
 
Not a good idea to weld them, for 2 reasons...
First - the wheel bolts have a shoulder (that you'll swedge against) that could interfere with the wheel seating properly
Second - Welding the bolt could make it brittle, allowing the wheel to escape :eek: from the vehicle without notice
I was tempted to weld mine in too, but look around for either a machine shop or a friend with a larger press.
Maybe you just need a higher capacity bottle jack for your press ?

Just my 2 cents....
 
Use a 20 ton press (minimum) or 30 + Ton prefered. Don't weld or you will have problems down the road.
 
I had new studs swaged in by a local auto machine shop using their tool. I supplied the tool I bought from Brattons but they couldn't use it because it wasn't hardened and just "mushed" out under pressure. I removed the old studs using a 5/8 steel hole saw in my drill press and knocking them out with a 2# hammer. No warping or out of round problems.
 
Guess I need to keep looking for a shop to do the job. Trouble is once they hear its off a 82 yr old car they don't want to touch it. Also I understand about 1/16 should be removed from the shoulder of the stud because they are made for cast drums. I'm guessing this is done to be sure no material sticks out above the drum so the wheel will fit flush ? Thanks for the help.
 
Gary Gregory said:
Guess I need to keep looking for a shop to do the job. Trouble is once they hear its off a 82 yr old car they don't want to touch it. Also I understand about 1/16 should be removed from the shoulder of the stud because they are made for cast drums. I'm guessing this is done to be sure no material sticks out above the drum so the wheel will fit flush ? Thanks for the help.
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Yes Gary, a friend removed the 1/16 from the shoulder for me on the studs I have because they are used in the original drums. Swaged in nice and flush. The shop charged $20 for installing the five studs.
 
What diff does it make if it's off an 82-yr-old car or a 2-yr-old car? :confused: This seems like a bogus argument. It sounds more like they just don't know how to swage. Sign a release if they're concerned about liability, but I can't imagine why they would be. :cool:
 
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The tools from the vendors are not hardened like was mentioned earlier. Don't use them. I tried and it went to heck in a heartbeat. It also twisted the sh?? out of the press. Had a friend make new hardened swedge tool and have done several sets of drums with no problems.
 
Think you're right...they prob don't know how to swedge. Sounds like my swedging tool is gong to be usless also.


700rpm said:
What diff does it make if it's off an 82-yr-old car or a 2-yr-old car? :confused: This seems like a bogus argument. It sounds more like they just don't know how to swedge. Sign a release if they're concerned about liability, but I can't imagine why they would be. :cool:
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Well...tried another shop today. This guy tried one stud but was afraid the tool would kick out and stopped. Guess I'll try to figure out how to drive on 3 wheels !
 
I don't know if this will work for you, but here is what I have done before, If you can rig a setup to support the hub and drum and back the hub bolt this could work. I Have used a large tip with the acetelene torch and heated the lug where it protrudes through the hub and drum. I heat the lug very hot, just before the sparks begin to fly, slip the tool over the lug and whack it quick with a three or four lb. hammer before it can cool. I clamp a pair of round jaw vise grips on the tool to hold it with. It helps if you have someone to man the torch, so that you have both hands to work with. It will take several heating and hammerings to get the lug really tight. Don't try quinching the lug, It will make it brittle. I have only done this where I only needed to replace one lug. The available lugs have longer sholders and you may have to use a tapered lug washer under the lug nut to compensate so that the nut will tighten enough. This is just something that I have done and I really will make NO recommendation. I have also used hubs and drums with all of the lugs brazed to the hub with NO problems. The problem with welding or brazing the lugs is that the weld can't stick out very far on the rear or it will cause problems by striking the emergency brake assy. Good luck.
 
Gary Gregory said:
Well...tried another shop today. This guy tried one stud but was afraid the tool would kick out and stopped. Guess I'll try to figure out how to drive on 3 wheels !
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It's not a big deal and I can't imagine someone close by won't swage the studs. I had to cut a little off the stud shoulder using my lathe because I was reusing my steel drum. I used the swage tool Bratton's sells.
 
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While swaging the bolts are the best my car had them welded in the 1980's. No problems with the welds. Once the drums wore out I had the new ones swagged in.
 
A 25 ton press will struggle to finish the job, 20 tons won't do it properly -----if it was trying to "kick out" I would think there was a problem with the setup ---I used a 40 ton press, it was easy to feel the metal move---then it came up on 24 tons you could feel the movement stop, it was finished ---in looking at the metal movement on some of the original ones it seems that much more force was used because of the distortion of the head of the stud ---the stamped hub design needs the drum "rivited"to the hub to be strong, then adding the wheel makes it stronger.
 
Thanks Purdy....I can see that trick might work if i can rig up somethng to hold the back of the stud and drum. May have to try. You are right about welding...not a lot of room inside. Wonder if a guy were to cut a few grooves into the new stud and hub and then lay the weld in those ? If i needed to grind a bit off to clear the brake at least there would be enough weld left to hold....just a thought. I really don't like the idea of welding but....??? I tried what i thought was one of our biggest machine shops today but he said his press was to small. Thanks guys for all the help.



Purdy Swoft said:
I don't know if this will work for you, but here is what I have done before, If you can rig a setup to support the hub and drum and back the hub bolt this could work. I Have used a large tip with the acetelene torch and heated the lug where it protrudes through the hub and drum. I heat the lug very hot, just before the sparks begin to fly, slip the tool over the lug and whack it quick with a three or four lb. hammer before it can cool. I clamp a pair of round jaw vise grips on the tool to hold it with. It helps if you have someone to man the torch, so that you have both hands to work with. It will take several heating and hammerings to get the lug really tight. Don't try quinching the lug, It will make it brittle. I have only done this where I only needed to replace one lug. The available lugs have longer sholders and you may have to use a tapered lug washer under the lug nut to compensate so that the nut will tighten enough. This is just something that I have done and I really will make NO recommendation. I have also used hubs and drums with all of the lugs brazed to the hub with NO problems. The problem with welding or brazing the lugs is that the weld can't stick out very far on the rear or it will cause problems by striking the emergency brake assy. Good luck.
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If you have a junk 1928 multiple disc flywheel , it might work for setting up the drum to back the lugs. Just a thought.
 
Thanks Purdy, Don't have anything like that. Did get a very hard piece of round stock today for backing and going to try the press at my work. Boy I tell ya...if you don't have the tools to do a job yourself then you're in trouble...machine shops are a joke !
 
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