How many MH's did it take?

[29FordGuy]

I have just about 'finished' the restoration on my '29 Briggs Town Sedan and as I was tediously nailing in the upholstery I had some time to ponder the meaning of my accomplishment in light of the work that went into the original assembly of the car. I could not help but wonder about some of the tasks I did that took hours to do, must have been done originally in minutes. I have recorded more than 700 hours over 2-1/2 years to do this restoration and I am sure it could have been done much better for more hours or even less if I was more experienced at this time of work. I have never done anything like this in my life! I could not help but wonder how many MH's it took to assemble the car originally? I have seen records of the Ford plant producing x number of cars each day and even, I believe, the number of workers at the plant, but how many MH's did it take for each car? I know that an original assembly is not equivalent to a restoration in time and can not be truely compared, but I was just curious if anyone knows or have seen estimates of such.

 

[John Butts in CT]

Good question. I hope someone volunteers the answer.

In a lighter vein, I recall a Model "T" joke in which a disgruntled owner confronted Henry Ford as follows:

Owner: "Mr. Ford, I read recently that your factory assembled a Model 'T' in 90 seconds."

Ford: "That's true."

Owner: "Well, I'm the sucker who bought it."

 

[Tudortomnz]

In '29, Ford stated it took 50 hours to convert raw materials to cash at dealer delivery. Of this 50 hrs, 24 consumed in shipping & handling. It took one hour to assemble the complete Model A at a US assembly factory.
From 'Ford Industries', 1929.

 

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

In '29, Ford stated it took 50 hours to convert raw materials to cash at dealer delivery. Of this 50 hrs, 24 consumed in shipping & handling. It took one hour to assemble the complete Model A at a US assembly factory.
From 'Ford Industries', 1929.

But I don't think that is an accurate statement with regard to man-hours. That means that if there were 60 men involved in assembly, each man would only have 60 seconds to do his task. I am not even sure about the 50 manhours total on from 'dust to delivery' either. If you were to only analyze what 29FordGuy was mentioning above, with patterns and materials at hand, how long do you suspect it would take to sew the entire interior for a body back then?

FordGuy, your 700 hours is very respectable! For those that have been to my shop know that we track restoration productivity almost to anal proportions, and for us to do a thorough restoration on a wood coach Sedan will easily run over 1600 hours. Even a Roadster will go over 1000 hours. Fine-point can add another 50% on the top of that.


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[5window]

In '29, Ford stated it took 50 hours to convert raw materials to cash at dealer delivery. Of this 50 hrs, 24 consumed in shipping & handling. It took one hour to assemble the complete Model A at a US assembly factory.
From 'Ford Industries', 1929.

I think they cheated with some statistics. Yes, a trained,experienced team of assemblers with all the parts and all the jigs in place-and not going for points judging-could probably have constructed an A in an hour-lots of man-hours-but an hour elapsed time. The actual man-hours had to be far more than that-setting up and casting parts,stamping, finishing, allowing paint to dry, building generators and carbs-you could go on and on. And, cars were shipped by rail, often disassembled-no way you could ship a car directly from Detroit to California by train in under 24 hours.

I think the real number still awaits us. Probably in the 100's, but what made Henry's product so inexpensive was the economy of scale.

 

[Bob Johnson]

Calculation ? sort of...

In 1928 Ford was paying 62.5 cents an hour. The cheapest Model A sold for around $400. Thus the upper limit would be 640 hours if ALL the cost was labor and there was no profit. Of course the labor would only be part of the cost. I would guess that the labor would be 1/4 to 1/3 the cost. So that would result in 160 to 213 man hours to make a car. The 1 hour quoted above is the time required to assemble the car. It does not include the time to make and assemble all of the pieces. Also it does not state how many people are involved in that 1 hour assembly.

Bob

 

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Re: Calculation ? sort of...

In 1928 Ford was paying 62.5 cents an hour. The cheapest Model A sold for around $400. Thus the upper limit would be 640 hours if ALL the cost was labor and there was no profit. Of course the labor would only be part of the cost. I would guess that the labor would be 1/4 to 1/3 the cost. So that would result in 160 to 213 man hours to make a car. The 1 hour quoted above is the time required to assemble the car. It does not include the time to make and assemble all of the pieces. Also it does not state how many people are involved in that 1 hour assembly.

Bob

I like the way you think! Good analysis!!


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[Special Coupe Frank]

Not to mention that "one hour assembly" included parts all painted and ready to go...

It probably took nearly an hour just for the final rubbing and polishing of the car bodies alone...

 

[Bob Johnson]

Another guess Assembly time

I found a picture of the employees at the Jacksonville plant. The picture was taken in the late 1920's (pre Model A). There were 603 employees in the picture. About 550 looked like assembly line workers. In 1929 there were about 150,000 Model As assembled in Jacksonville. Assuming an 8 hour work day 5 days a week. That works out to just about 8 man-hours per car to assemble each car, about 1 car per employee per day. Lots of assumptions here
I found another set of plant figures. Charlotte NC produced 300 cars per day with 500 total employees. Figure about 450 line workers so about 12 man hours per car.

Bob

 

[Rowdy]

I am guessing that the total time in restoring the delivery will be around 1200 hours. making the wood from prints and fitting it will likely consume about 250 hours for me, but I am picky. Rod

 

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

I am guessing that the total time in restoring the delivery will be around 1200 hours. making the wood from prints and fitting it will likely consume about 250 hours for me, but I am picky. Rod

Sure would make it nice back then when someone could reach over to the shelf and pick up a part that actually "fit"!! Jus' sayin'!!

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[29FordGuy]

Interesting discussion! I especially liked Bob Johnson's reasoning - makes a lot of sense and falls in line with what I would expect. I remember seeing a flick of workers building the wood spoked Model T wheels - they were fast even when discounting their apparent speed because of the hand cranked movie camera. Going back to the interior upholstery, I think that must have been a more time consuming task. Of course the seats were all done and ready to put in place, but the interior had to be hand tacked in place and I remember removing hundreds of very small upholstery tacks. It must have really been impressive to watch a car being assembled back then - no time to discuss the weekend or what you plan on doing for your vacation. All intense work or there would be someone waiting to take your job. Do we still have that work ethic or maybe I should not even go there. That was a good point also about parts that fit. I spent much of my time trying to fit repro pieces and even original pieces that have been distorted a bit over time. Anyway, it is an interesting subject. It has always facinated me how so many cars can come off the assembly line in a day. There were a lot of workers doing each of their little contributions to the final car - the assembly was only part of the equation. Much like ants in an ant hill - each one doing his little part to accomplish something big. Thanks for the imput to satisfy an inquisitive mind.....

 

[Rowdy]

That would be nice. I talked to the guy in Co. that is making the wood for the 130-A delivery and have been told his wook kits fit good. I personally think he is about $600 overpriced, but he is the only one making them so I guesse he likely can be. Even at that I am considering it opposed to making it. Still aways away from needing it and the job situation past Febuary is shakey at best, so no decesion til after that. Rod

 

[RockHillWill]

I restored a pickup once that took in excess of 1,900 man hours excluding motor building the final (color) paint work. It was spread out over 4-1/2 years.

 

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

The sad part of all of that, is that when you decide to sell the car and you try to figure how much you 'paid' yourself for your labor, you're lucky to average 4 bucks an hour. You have to look at it as 'I had fun doing it' because you'd starve working another job at that rate. Any accountant will tell you that there is no financial gain or reason to restore or rebuild an old car, you have to spend that money for the pure pleasure of having the old car.


Still probably a better deal to buy some one else's car already done rather than trying to restore one yourself. Saves on the knuckle skin too.

Jeff, the problem is that when Will finished restoring that truck, for several years it was the finest '31 pick-up truck in the country. Generally speaking, it is hard to buy that quality level of restoration.

Funny thing about the accountant's advice is, if we followed their instruction, I seriously doubt we would own any tangible item that would be considered fun. Even poker players need to have chips in their hands to keep them occupied while playing cards! The other thing that one needs to remember is, when someone goes and purchases a brand new "anything" and owns it for a day or two, it usually is very hard to get a financial return on the money they just invested, --yet brand new boats, motorcycles, cars, trucks, RVs, etc. are sold every day of the week without the purchasers worried about a ROI. Plus, if we followed the advice of the accountant and only purchased those items we truly needed, look at how many people would not have any employment!!

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[John Butts in CT]

In keeping with my earlier (failed) attempt to inject humor, I'll simply say "preserve... drive... enjoy." (And give up on counting your hours)

 

[29FordGuy]

Well said! Like I said earlier, this is the first time I have ever done anything like this (restoration). I have enjoyed it tremendously and am very proud of what I have done. I did it all except rebuild the engine. I kept time records for the 'completeness' of my restoration documentation. I fugure $4 may be a bit high for me - I was thinking more about cents when one figures in all the expens for parts. I did this for my pure enjoyment in retirement. I now wonder what I am going to do with myself now that it is done. I know, drive it and enjoy it - that I will.


What I need now is a Model A pickup......

 

[glenn in camino]

In the 70s, when I was almost finished with my first Model A restoration, I bought another unrestored Model A so the fun wouldn't end. I never count the hours or the money. That would spoil the fun.

 

[jerry of whidbey]

I worked on a modern assembly line and you didn't have time to wipe your nose as the engine went buy and that was in the 60's with union every body had a job to do no matter what look at the crowd on the line

 

[RockHillWill]

The sad part of all of that, is that when you decide to sell the car and you try to figure how much you 'paid' yourself for your labor, you're lucky to average 4 bucks an hour. You have to look at it as 'I had fun doing it' because you'd starve working another job at that rate. Any accountant will tell you that there is no financial gain or reason to restore or rebuild an old car, you have to spend that money for the pure pleasure of having the old car.

I actually addressed that with my accountant during the restoration. I was asking if I could deduct any of the costs of the work I was doing. I was told that I could not deduct anything while I was doing the work, but if i kept the receipts I could deduct the sales price from the total spent and deduct the difference (loss) from my taxes. It turned out to be GREAT advice. Of course I still probably worked for the $4 per hour.