How bad have I screwed up?

[1931fordor]

I replaced the oil pan after having the oil plug not spin out due to the ring on the pan coming lose, fixed that and oil pan went on with little trouble, now I went to put oil in it and had been told 5 quarts and I used castrol 20w-50. When I went to start it it ran fine, and then after driving the car maybe a mile and stopped back into garage and it was smoking like crazy and when I got out and cut it off I had oil seeping out the top of the head and steam/smoke coming from plugs and even from the distributor. Check oil 3 times and noticed that it was consistently way over the F about a quarter inch or so. Left car for day then went back later drained some oil out. Check next day and topped off oil and again started her up ran fine so put everything back on (previously replaced starter and battery). And noticed car was smoking again but only from the oil cap and dipstick slot, I figured it was just needing driving to settle out but I went to get gas was no problem but three miles later it cut out and then when I went to start it, it smoked and finally caught and I limped it a little more in hopes to limp it home but it was running horrible, almost like it had a knock or something in the motor. I had it towed home, and tried to show my dad what it sounded like and it would not start, I am in the process of asking a model a club member for some help but wonder if this has happened to anyone here before?

 

[1931fordor]

Sorry for such a long post but it kinda needed to have a backstory to explain what all had been done

 

[Tom Wesenberg]

Is this a new car to you? How did it run before the pan was removed?

Sounds like blowby to me. How was the timing set?

 

[RcT]

Pull the plugs and have a look at them. If you were blowing smoke that bad, it could be just the plugs are fouled and need cleaning or replacing. Its a start...

 

[James Rogers]

Did you happen to remove the dipper tray and forget to replace it? This would cause the motor to self destruct. You would have had to remove the tray to fix the plug properly, that is why I ask.

 

[1931fordor]

It's my grandfathers car and he has had it around 15-20 years and he and his brother would do all the work and I watched as a kid, the engine has been rebuilt at some point. I pulled the plugs and they were fine smelled like gas but not oil. The car has alway run fine. What is blow by? This is the first car I have worked on the motor so forgive me if I do not quite understand everything. And also how would I check the timing?

 

[1931fordor]

Did you happen to remove the dipper tray and forget to replace it? This would cause the motor to self destruct. You would have had to remove the tray to fix the plug properly, that is why I ask.

What is the dipper tray? Is that the lining inside the oil pan?

 

[bogdonj]

have you tried starting it again? is the knock still present?

 

[Craig Lewis]

What is the dipper tray? Is that the lining inside the oil pan?

Yes James is asking if you have a dipper tray across the inside of your pan. It snaps into place and has 4 troughs which the rod dippers feed from.
These pictures show an oilpan with and without the tray.

 

[hardtimes]

Drain the oil and see if any contamination..i.e.- metal/ water,etc...
If no contaminants found in oil, refil and this time ONLY FILL TILL OIL IS HALFWAY FROM BOTTOM OF DIPSTICK TO FULL MARK. Run engine this way to reduce blowby pressurizing oil out fill pipe and other areas. Check you radiator water(stick finger into to see if oil is present.
If there is a Model A club in your area...I'd recommend you contact them as mentors, as you not know parts/nomenclature will make if difficult , if not impossible to talk you thru tuneup process via computer! Oil coming out around head indicative of bad head gasket and possibly bad rings(blowby).

 

[Milton]

The car has alway run fine. What is blow by? This is the first car I have worked on the motor so forgive me if I do not quite understand everything. And also how would I check the timing?

If the car ran fine before the pan repair it should still run fine. Since it isn't let's try and figure out why.

Blowby is the fuel air mixture in the cylinder "blowing by" the piston rings during the compression stroke. As mentioned before by James, the dipper tray is very important since it provides oil to lubricate the rod bearings. I saw an excellent picture in this thread that shows the pan with and without the tray snapped into the grooves on the pan sides.

My first sentence is in reference to the timing, plugs, and other stuff that was not involved in the pan removal. If they were good before, they should be good now and I wouldn't worry about those until other things have been eliminated.

Tom asked how it ran before the pan change. With that info we can decide the next steps. James asked about the oil pan tray and this can be checked by removing the oil spout and shining a flashlite in the oil spout hole. Again, the tray is critical. If the pan was resoldered by others they might have removed the tray and failed to snap it back into the pan.

Answer those two questions first then we can proceed.

 

[garrisonm89@yahoo.com]

Stupid question but could the carb check valve be stuck open?

 

[Kurt in NJ]

Did the oil pump fall out---was it put back ---could it have fallen into the pan----was the spring on the bottom broken??? ---it would be simple to see if it is pumping---either remove the plug in the block near the pan, or loosen the oil return pipe and see if oil is pumped out when cranking (take out plugs)

 

[James Rogers]

Did the oil pump fall out---was it put back ---could it have fallen into the pan----was the spring on the bottom broken??? ---it would be simple to see if it is pumping---either remove the plug in the block near the pan, or loosen the oil return pipe and see if oil is pumped out when cranking (take out plugs)

You know Kurt, I never thought about the oil pump. It is so obvious that it is there but, if he laid it on a table and forgot it, that could very well be the problem. The easiest way to see if it is in would be to pull the drain plug and drop the oil and stick a small screwdriver in the hole. If the pump is in place the screwdriver won't go in but about 1/2".

 

[Steve Wastler]

If the dripped tray was in the pan, I don't think you would get the slightly over full readings. 5 quarts in an empty pan would certainly overfill. I too was thinking oil pump, do to the comment the pan went on with little trouble, but how would oil be coming out the head with no pump. You have either done something simple and stupid ( not you) or you really messed something up. Drain the oil and pull the pan again.

 

[1931fordor]

The oil pump is in and did not fall out I said a little trouble because we thought it needed a rope seal but it has the modern rubber timing seal and thus did not leak from front like I was concerned, and the dipper tray is in there.

How would I know if the carb check valve is open?

It ran perfect, it did not leak timing was correct and never overheated or anything, the only reason we had to pull the pan, was that I went to change the oil because no one knew when the last time it had been changed and I went to unscrew the plug and it just spun and we could not get it off, so we pulled the pan and had a replacement plug welded on.

 

[George Miller]

You need to retrace what you done to the engine. Some thing was not done right. My vote is with the oil pump, it sounds like it is not working. Anyway it is probable to late, sounds like you are in for engine work.

 

[garrisonm89@yahoo.com]

The only reason I brought up the carb check valve is because if it was stuck open and the gas was flowing and the check valve which is closed by the float in the carburetor bowl is sticking open it could be flooding the car to the point where it could be washing down the cylinder walls. It's possible for the car to actually start showing more on the dipstick than what it should be. I know it sounds like I'm grasping at straws I'm thinking out of the box. As I said earlier it might be a stupid question but...
Oh and please don't come right out and call me stupid. I can't handle rejection today.

 

[James Rogers]

The only reason I brought up the carb check valve is because if it was stuck open and the gas was flowing and the check valve which is closed by the float in the carburetor bowl is sticking open it could be flooding the car to the point where it could be washing down the cylinder walls. It's possible for the car to actually start showing more on the dipstick than what it should be. I know it sounds like I'm grasping at straws I'm thinking out of the box. As I said earlier it might be a stupid question but...
Oh and please don't come right out and call me stupid. I can't handle rejection today.

If the float valve was stuck open it would not flood the engine with raw gas to fill the pan. It might flood the engine to the point of not starting and wash the cylinders but gas won't flow up hill. A modern V8 or 6, normally asperated, will fill the intake full and I have seen the engine hydrolock from too much fuel in the cylinder. Yes the engine will start with too much oil in the pan. Neverdrain the oil and just put 5 quarts back in. That is what the dipstick is for, making sure you don't put too much in. Put 4 quarts in, run the engine, then check it and top it off.

 

[Farrell In Vancouver]

Garrison89, did he say he had a down draft carb on it? I must have missed it. But if its a standard up draft with a stuck float valve, I would think that fuel would be laying on the ground. I wonder if the new 20W-50 was a little too thin for the old girl, and it washed away alot of forgiving crud which had been keeping her purring quietly. Steam and smoke coming from the head may be a blown gasket by now?
Like the majority I would pull the pan and check every thing again. If all is fine turning with the crank reassemble with less oil and a thicker product like a straight weight 30. You didn't mention a rear main leak which might happen if over filled. Just blow by from excessive crank case pressure, I would inspect and clean the oil fill / vent pipe to be sure she's breathing right, especially if its spitting oil out the dips-stick as well. Good luck and happy hunting!