Purdy Swoft
Well-known member
I use the type hone with three spring loaded stones. I use kerosene or WD40 as a lube and flush, seems to work good. I use 80 grit stones on rusty cylinders and finish hone with 240-280 grit stones.
honing cylinders
- Thread starter glenn in camino
- Start date
QGolden
Well-known member
That is correct, IMO if a Rigid Hone is in the conversation then a machine shop is required. The OP question was regarding the use of a ball hone vs Three stone hone. With that question we have to presume he is freshining up a motor in his shop and will be installing rings in a motor that was running not too long ago. For a fellow with some motor experience the ball hone will do the job, but I prefer the three stone hone as it leaves a better cross hatch on the cylinder walls. Run the three stone under a flood of Kerosene up and down, electric drill, slow enough so you can mentally count revolutions. You dont have to count them, but that is the way I judge my drill speed. If I can just count them without them becoming a blur, that is the RPM I run the drill at. Travel full cylinder length, but don't exit the top or bottom of the cylinder by more than 1/4 the length of the stones on each pass, to avoid chipping the stones. Chipped stones can be fixed with a Hard Arkansas stone, as Honin' stones aren't that hard.
BRENT in 10-uh-C
Well-known member
Just so everyone is understanding a fixed hone, below are some pictures of my Kwik-Way 089 cylinder hone.
The 1st picture shows what a basic machine looks like. The upper arm is on a roller and it strokes up & down to make the correct cross-hash in the cylinder walls.
The 2nd shows the powerfeed head and the various controls. Note the flow of special honing oil flowing out the wand. It is cycled through a special filter and heater. Also notice the square black gauge on the rear panel of the machine.
The 3rd picture shows the specific controls.
The 4th picture is a close up of the black gauge I was mentioning. When you look at the gauge with the honing motor on, you will see it is pulling a little less than 7 amps without any load. When the stones are down into the cylinder bore, the handwheel on the head is turned to apply additional force on the stones & shoes. This is critical when obtaining uniform cutting. As the material in the bore is removed, the pressure against the stones is less, which shows up to the operator as less amp draw.
The 5th is the hones themselves. There are only two actual stones and two shoes whose purpose to keep the stones perfectly centered in the core. This is where using a flex hone becomes risky as an operator can easily position the hone off-center which will allow more material to be taken off of one side, ...or it is easy to hold the hone in one area too long and remove more material or make the cylinder "egg-shaped".. A thousandth or two doesn't seem like much, ...except when you are trying to get rings to seal. (Again, notice the massive amount of honing fluid that is used. This is to keep swarf flushed away and to keep the bores cool during the honing process.
The 6th are just some of the stones we use. After we have bored the cylinder round to about .003" of final bore size, we start with 100 grit stones to remove a couple more thousands followed by 200 grit, 300 grit, and 400 grits stones which are used progressively to get to the exact bore size. Again, a couple being undersized can cause the engine to run hot, and being oversized on a cylinder or two can cause premature loss of compression or oil smoking. Using a honing machine allows the machinist to make all four bores equal.
In the 7th picture you will see the large handwheel that adjusts the stones & shoe in or out. Look at the stones and you will see the gears on the pins. This wheel has a shaft that runs down into that head and as the machine is honing, the operator will move the wheel slightly to control the tension he wants.
The 8th pic just shows a better view of the stones & shoes.
Hopefully this makes sense to some. Sorry I do not have a block handy to put in the machine to show how it all works but maybe you get a visual idea anyway. One other thing that is kinda cool about these machines. Although I do not own a set ( ...yet!!), there is a "hi-dollar" set of diamond stones that are used with this machine to actually bore the cylinders and these stones totally do away with using a separate boring machine to bore the cylinders. The advantage is less set-up time, cheaper machine costs, and faster productivity.
.
The 1st picture shows what a basic machine looks like. The upper arm is on a roller and it strokes up & down to make the correct cross-hash in the cylinder walls.
The 2nd shows the powerfeed head and the various controls. Note the flow of special honing oil flowing out the wand. It is cycled through a special filter and heater. Also notice the square black gauge on the rear panel of the machine.
The 3rd picture shows the specific controls.
The 4th picture is a close up of the black gauge I was mentioning. When you look at the gauge with the honing motor on, you will see it is pulling a little less than 7 amps without any load. When the stones are down into the cylinder bore, the handwheel on the head is turned to apply additional force on the stones & shoes. This is critical when obtaining uniform cutting. As the material in the bore is removed, the pressure against the stones is less, which shows up to the operator as less amp draw.
The 5th is the hones themselves. There are only two actual stones and two shoes whose purpose to keep the stones perfectly centered in the core. This is where using a flex hone becomes risky as an operator can easily position the hone off-center which will allow more material to be taken off of one side, ...or it is easy to hold the hone in one area too long and remove more material or make the cylinder "egg-shaped".. A thousandth or two doesn't seem like much, ...except when you are trying to get rings to seal. (Again, notice the massive amount of honing fluid that is used. This is to keep swarf flushed away and to keep the bores cool during the honing process.
The 6th are just some of the stones we use. After we have bored the cylinder round to about .003" of final bore size, we start with 100 grit stones to remove a couple more thousands followed by 200 grit, 300 grit, and 400 grits stones which are used progressively to get to the exact bore size. Again, a couple being undersized can cause the engine to run hot, and being oversized on a cylinder or two can cause premature loss of compression or oil smoking. Using a honing machine allows the machinist to make all four bores equal.
In the 7th picture you will see the large handwheel that adjusts the stones & shoe in or out. Look at the stones and you will see the gears on the pins. This wheel has a shaft that runs down into that head and as the machine is honing, the operator will move the wheel slightly to control the tension he wants.
The 8th pic just shows a better view of the stones & shoes.
Hopefully this makes sense to some. Sorry I do not have a block handy to put in the machine to show how it all works but maybe you get a visual idea anyway. One other thing that is kinda cool about these machines. Although I do not own a set ( ...yet!!), there is a "hi-dollar" set of diamond stones that are used with this machine to actually bore the cylinders and these stones totally do away with using a separate boring machine to bore the cylinders. The advantage is less set-up time, cheaper machine costs, and faster productivity.
.
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BILL WILLIAMSON
Well-known member
In 1959 while workin' for Lutz Ford, I installed a rebuilt engine in a cab over Ford truck, built by Peninsula Engine Rebuilding in Palo Alto, Ca. It would "sing" a high pitched song!! They did their final bore cut with an old Van Norman boring bar at the slowest speed & DIDN'T hone their bores, afterwards!!! They stated that they NEVER had a problem with their rings seating in!!!! (NOT RECOMMENDING THIS TO ANYONE, JIST STATING THE FACTS!!) Bill W.
KR500
Senior Member
A rigid hone's job is to remove material, whether to straighten out a tapered cylinder to go to the next oversize ring or get the proper fit of a piston to wall clearance. Brush Research ball hones come in many grit sizes, but do not change the size of bores in any way and don't remove material. I run a 180 grit with WD 40 on a cylinder after ridgid honing to get a nice cross hatch pattern in the cylinder and knock down some high spots. Washing each cylinder after with brakleen. With rings installed I coat the cylinder and pistons with Lubriplate 105 engine assembly grease. Haven't experienced any problems.
BCCHOPIT
Well-known member
Chuck Sea/Tac
Well-known member
You appear to be saying opposite things. A) doesn't remove material b) used to knock down high spots.??? Am I missing something?