Hints for Riveting

Will N

Will N

Well-known member
I'll be replacing a couple of panels in my roadster that are riveting in place. Any hints from you guys who've done this? What tools and techniques did you use to set the rivets? Any insight is appreciated.
 
McMaster Carr has a good rivet selection.
The steel rivets are set cold. I think most body rivets are 1/4 or smaller.
There are hand set rivet tools that you strike with a hammer but a pneumatic riveter is best.
A 3x gun will do the 3/16 and smaller steel rivets in the floor pans. & a 7x gun for larger steel rivets up to 1/4.
I’ve found a selection of used guns on eBay, 3x generally under $100 and the larger ones a bit more.
If you are not concerned with originality there are fasteners that look like rivet heads.
 
Oldbluoval said:
Which rivets and where?
It matters
Click to expand...


Two panels: The floor under the front seat and the lower firewall. The prior owner hacked these up. Half the floor is missing and is filled in with some sheet aluminum with screws. The firewall has a grid pattern of about 35 holes drilled in front of the driver, and there's a hole hacked in where a manifold heater would go. I guess he was trying to get some engine heat into the roadster! And there's about 20 or so other extra holes arranged here and there. Good to learn that they are set cold. I wasn't looking forward to heating them red hot and trying to set them before they cooled. I'm not going for a blue ribbon restoration, but I like to be authentic if I can. I understand that these rivets were set with a tool that created a waffle pattern? I see that Snyders sell a tool for an air hammer with the waffle head.
 
CA Victoria said:
McMaster Carr has a good rivet selection.
The steel rivets are set cold. I think most body rivets are 1/4 or smaller.
There are hand set rivet tools that you strike with a hammer but a pneumatic riveter is best.
A 3x gun will do the 3/16 and smaller steel rivets in the floor pans. & a 7x gun for larger steel rivets up to 1/4.
I’ve found a selection of used guns on eBay, 3x generally under $100 and the larger ones a bit more.
If you are not concerned with originality there are fasteners that look like rivet heads.
Click to expand...


Thanks- can you tell me what 3x and 7x means? I looked at ebay and I don't see these terms in the descriptions.
 
A 3X rivet gun is what I use for installing many, many rivets. It works great. An air hammer will work, but not near as good as a 3X or 4X rivet gun. Rivet guns have a longer stroke. You need to buy or make a "bit" for the rivet gun. You need to make a "buck" to fit the rivet head. I made made different kinds of bucks and bits for my rivet gun. Most 3/16" sheetmetal rivets are peened using a waffle tool available from suppliers. I have some pictures of how I installed many rivets in my 3 model A's. Send me a PM or email (with your email address) if you want me to send some of the pictures.
Rusty Nelson
 
Same person must have owned my roadster too , the under seat panel on mine was also hacked can’t store side curtains should have like a tunnel underneath the seat riser, got mine from Snyders but have not installed it yet.
 
Within the mfg. specs listed for rivet guns are the numerical X values. I don’t know how but it must relate to power, dia of piston, length of stroke, etc.
The advice I got was to stick with a USA made gun, they are serviceable, the .401 diameter tooling, and preferably one of the recoil control.
If you track back to a manufacturers website you’ll see the references with the gun models – and Rivett capabilities
 
All I've ever had is the standard 3X and the longer 5X. These are stroke measurements for the hammer pin movement. The longer the stroke the harder the blow is struck during the driving process. Most of my work over the years has been for aircraft repairs. Aluminum rivets are the norm in aviation. Steel is the norm in the old Ford model A cars so they will take heat or a lot of persuasion or both.

Ford used various head styles but only three basic stem sizes. The big ones are 5/16" for the frame and some 1/4" with most being round head type. The heavy parts of the body sub-frame use 1/4" but some are more of a brazier head and some are round head. The floor panels use 3/16" rivets which are driveable cold but you have to beat them with a 5X minimum. I heat them all. It just helps drive them easier.

The length rule for worn or loose holes is 1 1/2 the stem diameter (1.5D) protrusion prior to driving. A good tight hole can get away with less protrusion but I wouldn't go any less than 1D. A person also needs rivet set tooling for each different diameter size and head style. Rivet guns are expensive but hand hammer type tooling is available. Hand tooling makes it imperative to have a good friend to help buck all the rivets. Most times a helper is needed anyway. Look for a local club chapter if you want to get some experienced help.

Big Flats Rivet Co has model A kits or most model A sources have them.
 
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I have used Big Flats Rivet Company. They offer "kits" for the panel you are replacing plus all the tools and instructions.

https://www.bigflatsrivet.com/

If you are buying a Rivet gun, get the longer stroke one. It works a lot better. But you can do the job with a 3X.
 
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