Help: Need a Transmission Guru

Psych

Psych

Senior Member
I am working on a 1938 ******. When I go to put the shifter top on the case, with both the gears and forks set to neutral, the six mounting holes are slightly off center. I can easily line them up with an awl and mount the top. The ****** will then shift between second and third and will go over to first and reverse once. It will not return to the second and third position. Upon inspection, I find that the front fork is not completely in the center (neutral) position. Bottom line is that there is a slight mis-alignment between the front fork and the gear. I checked the forks against a couple of other tops and they are not bent. Is there something I could have done wrong in assembly to have caused this situation? Any ideas would be appreciated.
 
Pictures? Did you change the synchro hub or sleeve during the rebuild? Are you using a '38 shift tower or a double detent with a 3" fork?
 
Sounds like Will has it... There is about .125 or so, plus or minus, difference between early & late. Either the mis-matched syncro, or mis-matched shift fork/tower = my guess. JMO
 
Psy,
Most all '38 trans had the double detent tower...except very
early production....but with the 2 3/4" 2nd/3rd fork. LOTS of these
particular towers had the 2 3/4" fork gouged out to 3" in a vain attempt
to use them with loose syncro gear set. If your trans has the syncro
ring with the groove roughly in the middle you have the early style
gear set which uses the 2 3/4" fork. Here is another thought...if the
syncro ring I just described is in backwards....easy to do....that could
louse things up. The groove is roughly in the middle but it is offset
somewhat. To further muddy the water there are TWO different rings
for these trans...'32-'35 and '36-'38.
Getting back to the backwards thing...you will notice a slight
ridge on the syncro ring....the ridge must point towards the front of
the trans....many books show it going towards the back but trust me
it goes to the front.
Charlie ny
cas5845@yahoo.com
 
Thanks for the reponses. Based on your replies, I have identified the following. The tower is a 68-7222 with the correct 2 3/4" fork. I did change the sync shaft, but am not sure of the sleeve. It is for a 2 3/4
inch fork and it is facing like the picture in the green bible, as Charlie pointed out -groove toward the front. I must have used the wrong sleeve. Any other possibilities?
 
Are you running with the 1938 gears or was anything changed to go with the 39-48 type gears? This link will show pics of both: http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/flathead_transID_3speed-gears.htm

Was this a working trans before you rebuilt it? Or are you assembling things from various parts on hand?

The early style synchro sleeves had the fork groove in the center. There were two versions of these....one is 1.406" wide and the other is 1.345" wide. Their use depended on which cluster gear you were running, but I suspect you should have the correct one (the 1.345" wide) for the 1938 gearset.

We'll all try to help get it figured out. Can you post pics?
 
You mentioned you changed the main shaft, or "synchro shaft" as you mentioned. Is the shaft correct and did you get the thrust washer behind the 2nd gear next to the splines for low gear?
Good Luck'
Paul J.
 
There are some pictures. I believe the gear set was from one ******. However the main shaft was badly damaged to the extent that the front split spacer (7063) was completely worn off by contact with the bearing (7118) that fits into the input shaft. By comparing my pictures with those from the given website, I noticed that when my sync sleeve is in the neutral position, the brass sync gears are not equally spaced from the sleeve like they are in the website's pictures. The pictures of the ****** that I posted in this post have the sleeve centered on the balls in the neutral position. The offset can be seen in the pictures. This would account for the shifter top not aligning with the ****** case due to the sleeve being to far forward. What did I do wrong? Thanks again for all the help.
 

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You stated... "the brass sync gears are not equally spaced from the sleeve". That statement plus the photos suggest that you have somehow fitted separate loose brass synchro rings in front of....and behind the synchro hub. If what I THINK I see is that......you've got early and late synchro components mixed up.

The early synchro (which is what you have) would NOT have separate brass/bronze synchro rings fitted in place. It's hard to tell what the heck is inside that synchro assy, but SHOULD be there would be the splined hub with holes for six little balls and springs. The hub was mfr'd with the brass/bronze rings integral with the hub. They can not be seen from the outside when the synchro is assembled into the gearset.

It kind of appears that I am seeing the little synchro teeth of the 1939-54 style brass/bronze synchro setup. If this is really the case, you would have all kinds of screwed up assembly. Can you clarify what you have there?
 
Psy,
Might be time to disassemble and spread everything out. I'm seeing what
Mac is seeing....it's autopsy time brother. Is that rust or just a reflection....I'm
stroking my beard in a concerned way.
Charlie ny
 
I am having difficulty explaining. I sent a couple more pictures. I moved the sleeve to make it look exactly like the one in Mac's website. In my eyes there is no difference in the way the two sleeves look. There a difference internally however. The one at Mac's website is in neutral and the six little balls are centered in the center grooves. Mine is centered, but the balls are not in the grooves, they are half way between the neutral grooves and the second gear position. When the balls are centered in the neutral position, the sleeve looks like it does in my last post. No rust Charlie, just some over spray. Thanks again guys, I'll pull it out and try again. Hope I explained the problem more clearly this time.
 

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I would guess one of your parts if new was made wrong if you can check with a known good set you will know for sure.
 
Psy,
Call me, I'm right around the corner in Orchard Park, N.Y......716 662 9159.
Pull the trans and bring it over.
Charlie ny
 
Hmmm.....maybe the hub is mounted backwards. They have a bit of a "snout" on the front side of the hub. It faces forward. I'm wondering if the hub is in backwards, thus creating the offset somehow.
 
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