Help Me Build A Hot Banger!

hotrod937

hotrod937

Member
Well my pops and I got this A Roadster that you can read about here.
http://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=102112

I'm going to press on for a couple more sessions to get the motor running well and not leaking oil. My dad is back to work now and said he'd kick in a grand for the build. I've got a couple options here. The end game is a new Babbitt motor with some improvements gaining 60 to 80hp.

Option 1: Build the 1931 A motor I've got now. The car will be down until the end of summer probably. I don't really want to go this route as I have a ton of other projects going right now.

Option 2: Find a running motor to have the car driving temporally while I build the other motor. I'd need to do some craigslisting and put some major trust in the motor being bought.

Option 3: I know where there's a counterweighted diamond motor for 600 to build. That would only leave me with 400 to barley get the crank poured and machined. Not sure if that around 450 price I got loosely quoted included rods.

Option 4: The same guy with the diamond motor has tons of A motors for around 300 bucks. Keep going on the motor I have and build another A motor. Question. Which block is better for a high hp build? A or B/C/Diamond? Would it be worth maybe getting an A motor and doing the counter weighted crank, pressurizing the oiling system and going hot head and cam? Or should I start with the diamond motor with the counterweighted crank and already pressurized oiling system?
 
If I get the B/C/Diamond motor and it's cracked is it worth having the counterweighted crank to use along with the "C" head (3 bolt waterpump) and other parts such as starter, gen, carb and intake (stuff I won't probably use)? Would my $600 be still a good buy if the block was cracked beyond repair? I'm thinking this is a diamond motor and not a B motor. Are the D motors less prone to cracking than the B motors?
 
You might get more responses on the HAMB. This forum is for original restorations (and the many small mods) to the Model A as it came from the factory. Not for hot rods. Good luck on the build!
 
I'm already on the HAMB and due to my very specific questions they can not be searched over there due to how the board is set up. I've put in 100's of different combinations of terms in the search and got zip. I've started threads and haven't really had my questions answered. There are only about 7 mentions of B/C/Diamond motors I've found online and just keep going in circles. I like the HAMB but the way it's organized isn't conducive finding out specific information. It's kind of a cluster over there with everything in 1 section. I'd have to go back and read every single post in every single banger thread to maybe find my answers. I'll probably just have to make some hard decisions and hope they don't cost me more money.
 
This is a tip for you cause we like you .

Spend your money on brakes first . Make sure it will stop .
 
:confused:
hotrod937 said:
I'm already on the HAMB and due to my very specific questions they can not be searched over there due to how the board is set up. I've put in 100's of different combinations of terms in the search and got zip. I've started threads and haven't really had my questions answered. There are only about 7 mentions of B/C/Diamond motors I've found online and just keep going in circles. I like the HAMB but the way it's organized isn't conducive finding out specific information. It's kind of a cluster over there with everything in 1 section. I'd have to go back and read every single post in every single banger thread to maybe find my answers. I'll probably just have to make some hard decisions and hope they don't cost me more money.
Click to expand...

As you are probably aware, this forum is the same software as that jalopy journal forum, and there are very intelligent people over there. If you ask a specific question, keep going back and bringing it to the top and eventually someone will get around to answering it. I realize you were not wanting to read all the posts however I suggest you take the time to read each and every one of the posts over there so you can be more educated with the 'banger' engine.

I will also tell you right now that building banger engines is not a cheap endeavor! It will cost you either by learning from Trial & Error, ...or by paying for someone else's knowledge who has been down that road..
 
hotrod937,

I don't know about HAMB, but if I have a question like any of the ones you have I will ask this board in general like your doing. And/or..., I'll read a lot of the threads {which I do anyway...} and ascertain who are the motor heads by their answers to motor questions. Then I'll PM them and ask if I may pick their brain for a while.;) I've done this before and have yet to meet anybody that didn't mind helping me at all.:)

Bob-A:D
 
So nobody knows if that $600 is good money for a counterweighted crank and 'C' head? (just trying to help!)
 
hotrod937 said:
I'm already on the HAMB and due to my very specific questions they can not be searched over there due to how the board is set up. I've put in 100's of different combinations of terms in the search and got zip. I've started threads and haven't really had my questions answered. There are only about 7 mentions of B/C/Diamond motors I've found online and just keep going in circles. I like the HAMB but the way it's organized isn't conducive finding out specific information. It's kind of a cluster over there with everything in 1 section. I'd have to go back and read every single post in every single banger thread to maybe find my answers. I'll probably just have to make some hard decisions and hope they don't cost me more money.
Click to expand...


They don't answer even on the monthly banger thread that I have linked above in my previous post? Its a thread only for banger questions.
 
Well, brand new counter-balanced cranks are selling for around $975 now I think.:confused: They are made in communist China, if that means anything!:p
So I guess a "good" used counter-balanced crank for around 6 bills might
not be so bad. I think there is one on eBay right now. A "C" head is just
a "B" head in reality isn't it? I would go for a HC head made and designed
to be a HC head. If I could afford it.:) Just my .02 worth.

Bob-A:D
 
I would think that 600 for a cw crank, block and head is a good deal. No, a GREAT deal


PM Jim Brierley on this forum. He'll give you all the info you need
 
check with Walt Dupont. why would building a hot rod banger motor be trial and error. hasent that motor been around since 1928, I think lots of people have hoped them up
over time
 
Tinker said:
They don't answer even on the monthly banger thread that I have linked above in my previous post? Its a thread only for banger questions.
Click to expand...

I'm on way over there. Love that motor on the first page! Just pulled the crank outa my block. Little nerve racking with the shims falling down and making sure every thing is exactly in order. Thanks for the replies on the 600 dollar motor.
 
Brendan said:
check with Walt Dupont. why would building a hot rod banger motor be trial and error. hasent that motor been around since 1928, I think lots of people have hoped them up
over time
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Try it with a box of parts. You'll spend anywhere from 2000$ to 10,000$ going from stock short block to 80 HP banger. If you decide to learn how to do your own babbitt, just the line boring rig will cost about 3 grand or more.
 
Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go.

I think you are going to fall far short of your horsepower goals with the dollar amount you have posted.

I wholeheartedly agree with Hicktick: spend your money making the car stop first. Although Model A brakes are good, they do need upkeep and if you just got the car and are new to the hobby, I would strongly suggest you start there first.
 
hotrod937 said:
If I get the B/C/Diamond motor and it's cracked is it worth having the counterweighted crank to use along with the "C" head (3 bolt waterpump) and other parts such as starter, gen, carb and intake (stuff I won't probably use)? Would my $600 be still a good buy if the block was cracked beyond repair? I'm thinking this is a diamond motor and not a B motor. Are the D motors less prone to cracking than the B motors?
Click to expand...

Diamond blocks were either Model A or Model B blocks...both cast as service replacements. As far as the diamond block being less susceptible to cracking, I'd guess that there's no appreciable difference, provided we're comparing a Model B production block with a "Diamond" B service replacement block, but I'll defer to the more seasoned FordBarner's on that issue.

I'd say $600 is too much for a core - no telling how many times that crank has been turned or what it's going to take to get it cleaned up. Ditto for the head, cracks are pretty commonplace on both the water outlet 'ridge' and between passages on the mounting surface.

I'm not sure where you're located...there are probably some Model A guys around you that can offer some assistance (maybe have them go look at the motor with you) or give you a lead on a running motor.
 
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If you want to PM me I can give you some info on my diamond block build for my speedster. It dyno'd at 85 horse.
 
28ACoupe said:
Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go.

I think you are going to fall far short of your horsepower goals with the dollar amount you have posted.


I wholeheartedly agree with Hicktick: spend your money making the car stop first. Although Model A brakes are good, they do need upkeep and if you just got the car and are new to the hobby, I would strongly suggest you start there first.
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I understand this as I've built a couple motors, doing all the blueprinting, balancing, porting, flowing, machining, assembling myself. I'm not trying to get a red hat from the scta here. With the money I have I'm lookin to only start the build. I'm a newb here but I've got a full shop and by full I mean overflowing into the driveway, yard and out back. I'm a senior member over at Pirate4x4 and on just about every other board on the net that has to do with motors and wheels. I even have a collection of small engines including an old Maytag twin.


I'm old to the hobby new to 1920's engines. If you look at my other threads you will see that I've already rebuilt the entire fuel system and gone through the breaks. It stops amazing.

gwhite said:
Diamond blocks were either Model A or Model B blocks...both cast as service replacements. As far as the diamond block being less susceptible to cracking, I'd guess that there's no appreciable difference, provided we're comparing a Model B production block with a "Diamond" B service replacement block.

I'd say $600 is too much for a core - no telling how many times that crank has been turned or what it's going to take to get it cleaned up. Ditto for the head, cracks are pretty commonplace on both the water outlet 'ridge' and between passages on the mounting surface.

I'm not sure where you're located...there are probably some Model A guys around you that can offer some assistance (maybe have them go look at the motor with you) or give you a lead on a running motor.
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I've got a couple A guys in the local club I'm pals with but they are the pay a motor guy kinda people and if they did have a line on a running motor it'd be 2 grand. As far as looking at the motor. I pulled the pan to see if it was the counterweight crank. I thought about pulling the head but know it can sometimes be a major pain and didn't want to pull this old guys motor totally apart. If I do go to buy it I might pull the head and check for any visual cracks. I'm kinda scared to spend the 6 bills but a scat CW crank goes for over a grand so I think I'd be okay if that was the only part I used. I'd sell the B stuff and make a table out of the block.

From what I've read there are b blocks with no cw cranks, b blocks with bolt on cw cranks and 4 bolt water pumps. Then "c" blocks for cars 33 34 with 3 bolt long or short WP's and cast into CW cranks then Diamond Blocks for use as replacement, hd truck and implement produced up to the war. I also read that the later diamond blocks have more meat in the mains. There's also different front covers and several different diameters on mains and rods with two different rod lengths. These details I'm sure blend and mush together but I'm thinking the block I'm after is a later HD truck block biased on the dead junk around his place and the fact that he only messes with A's and some trucks. I don't know though. All I know is I want it.

BILL WILLIAMSON said:
Re: Thread title, talk is cheap! Serious building is Quiet Planning, Labor Intensive, & Expensive! Bill W.
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You're right. I'm not gonna do it. I'm just gonna pay pepboys to swap in an LT1/4l60 and a 10 bolt. No really, my plan is to start with a soild stock style bottom end with possibly a CW crank. I'm looking for advice on making the giant first step here. Take a chance on the B/C/Diamond motor with CW crank or start with an A motor. If all goes well this might be my motor build thread or I might post the engine build in my car thread.

usered said:
If you want to PM me I can give you some info on my diamond block build for my speedster. It dyno'd at 85 horse.
Click to expand...

Thank you sir! This is what I need. Someone who has one, built one or even seen one.
 
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